THE JEZABELS are back in town. They’ve been back and forth to the UK the past few years, gently nurturing their fanbase, supporting massive names including Garbage, Depeche Mode and The Pixies, and we always love catching up with them.
Electric on stage, they have been unfairly snubbed by the mainstream UK media who struggled to latch on to the fact that this is not only a cool band to see live, but that the loyalty in their fanbase is fierce whether its back at home in Australia or here in Manchester – and they have worked hard to earn that loyalty. While certain media types continue to play catch-up, the band have just brought out second album The Brink to follow their 2011 award-winner Prisoner.
Off the back of their LANEWAY FESTIVAL slots, they’re soaking up the new set list as they now perform to fans across the UK and Europe.
Here at Manchester’s Gorilla, there’s already a buzz in the air as Jezabels fans gather to embrace the new tracks and celebrate the classic ones too. The new London-recorded album is certainly of a different vibe to the first one – in Hayley Mary’s own words: “we think it’s a bit more of a positive, warm record” than their acclaimed debut.
Backstage, I get right down to brass tacks with lead singer Hayley Mary and guitarist Sam Lockwood, while drummer Nik Kaloper sound checks next door and keyboardist Heather gets ready for the show ahead. It’s nice to see them again, and as always they’re focused and friendly, with feet firmly on the ground.
* For report and photos of 25 February Manchester show, click HERE >>
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Hello again! One album further on…
SAM: One album into the future!
You got to the UK not that long ago and you’ve just done Nottingham…
SAM: Yeah, we were in Australia for Laneway Festival and we came over a couple weeks ago. This is basically the start of our album tour.
How did it go?
HAYLEY: Last night was good! It was a really great crowd for some reason – we weren’t expecting it because it’s Monday, beginning of the week…
SAM: The show was really fun, it went really well.
And how are you feeling about the new album? It has a different feel to the first one…
HAYLEY: Yeah, we’re definitely feeling good about it. The main thing we’ve been saying about it is we think it’s a bit more of a positive, warm record, it’s probably a little bit more upbeat – we wrote it purposely to make it easier to play live, so we’re looking forward to seeing if we’ve succeeded. And so far, it sounds good…
SAM: Yeah, last night went really well – we can play seven songs off the album now. With Prisoner, it took us many, many months to even get a couple of songs.
Are you going to be changing your set as you move through the tour?
SAM: Yeah. It’s just testing set lists and what works, because with new songs, you don’t know how they fit in with everything else…
It’s an exciting period though, because you can experiment and you’re probably very conscious of the audience reaction…
SAM: Well, putting six or seven new songs into the set list makes everything new – they make old songs seem new, so it’s just really nice. We got rid of songs we maybe played too much…
HAYLEY: Yeah, and every time we don’t do songs, people are like, “Why don’t you play that one?” And it’s like, “Well, we have a new record…”
Are you happy with the response to the new set so far?
SAM: Yeah! It’s awesome, we’re stoked. Even last night with the show – it was a really great crowd. The last time we played Nottingham we were in a really small room. Last night it was a bigger venue, The Rescue Rooms, and the room was full It just felt like people were really psyched about everything. We’re a very malleable band with our emotions, so if people are excited, we get really excited – it’s kind of an exchange.
HAYLEY: Yeah, if they’re not excited, we get sad…
Aw no! What do you do on stage if you ever feel the crowd’s not getting into it?
SAM: You just have to try to get through it, but it’s so much easier if they’re into it.
Well, I’m looking forward to seeing the new set.
SAM: Yeah, it should be interesting!
HAYLEY: We’ll see how it goes! I just don’t know what’s going to happen out there…
And, what would you say you’d hope to happen with the album and the tour?
SAM: I hope it goes well.
HAYLEY: Nothing in particular, but I just hope that it goes well and that people like it. I hope we don’t lose money, but other than that I just really would like to make people happy!
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You recorded The Brink in London – I found it quite funny when I discovered you chose London, considering last time I met you, you were quite frustrated with how the UK press were receiving you here…
HAYLEY: Oh, we still are!
SAM: Yeah, we kind of thought about that, like, “Why aren’t we going somewhere like Germany or Canada where they love us?” Yeah, maybe we’re masochists…
HAYLEY: I think we like to be berated and put down… We like being the underdog. You don’t want to be somewhere where they love you and think you’re great, because you’d just get complacent…
But, what if everything just switched with this tour – if the UK critics now suddenly embraced you, would that feel a bit odd?
HAYLEY: We’d probably be like, “Oh yeah, now you like us…!”
SAM: After we did a Depeche Mode and a Pixies tour, we felt that it kind of repositioned us in a way. With a band, people need to put you somewhere to fit you into the landscape. With us, it’s kind of weird because our music is not generally pop – it’s not generally anything. In Australia, we’re Australian so everyone’s generally supportive, but when you go somewhere else, you feel you need to have a story…
HAYLEY: We’ve got a lot of things which make us really unmarketable to the London market. But one thing we noticed is London is separate to the rest of the country – we really like touring the rest of the country. I love London too, but it’s just that the music critics there seem to have a war against optimism.
You’re too happy?!
HAYLEY: But, we’re not, even! We just wrote happy music…
SAM: We’re not even that happy…
Maybe it’s a bit cliquey in London – it can be tough, because there’s quite a lot of bandwagoning among the mainstream music media there…
SAM: Exactly. Especially if you’re making music that doesn’t have a genre or a trend…
HAYLEY: … or if it’s not in the movement that they think is cool at the moment…
So, you say you repositioned yourself – did you go into the new album conscious of wanting to achieve that?
HAYLEY: I don’t think it was conscious…
SAM: I mean we wanted to do certain things like make things better for live play, but that’s all, really. I mean, choosing your producer is really instrumental, and with Dan’s (Dan Grech-Marguerat) work with The Kooks, The Vaccines and Scissor Sisters, you can sort of get a general picture of what he’s going to do, so I guess that’s one thing we could have understood. That’s a big thing that made the album sound like it is.
HAYLEY: But a lot of it is circumstance. We didn’t move to London because the critics hate us there or anything – we went there because we had personal relationships that meant it was easier to be there than anywhere else at that time.
So, did you develop an affection for the city?
SAM: I love London – it’s amazing.
HAYLEY: Totally! It’s London! You can’t really top the experience of living there.
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The last time we met was your memorable show with GARBAGE at the Manchester Academy almost 2 years back. Since then, we’ve seen Pussy Riot jailed, which brought together a lot of female musicians and promoted female visibility in music, politics… Things do seem to be evolving in the industry a bit…
HAYLEY: Well, the biggest example we’ve experienced was Laneway Festival actually – it was all headlined by female-fronted acts: Lorde, Haim, us, Chvrches, Cloud Control, Daughter, lots of bands not just with female members but female-fronted, or all-female bands like Savages. The biggest thing that struck me wasn’t that they were ‘allowed’ to be on there, but that the festival didn’t mind heaps of female-fronted bands in a row headlining the festival.
That’s quite a shift isn’t it, when you look at festival trends…
HAYLEY: Yeah, because normally festivals avoid it…
SAM: Yeah, and it was the most successful festival in Australia over summer for that genre. So, I think times are changing. I guess there was never a problem with doing that anyway, but it was great to see that it occurred and nobody even talked about it, really. They were just like, “This is great!”
HAYLEY: Well, people said it was a good thing, but no one was like “Ah!” I guess people used to be afraid that if you have that many female acts in a row, the audience would be like, “Oh, enough, enough!” or something. We’ve even been worried about that before – I remember worrying that if we get two female-fronted support bands, people might get sick of the female vocals. But then I’m like, “No they don’t! What are you talking about?” It’s just this old fear that people have.
Maybe audiences are adjusting now to seeing a band as a band. I mean HAIM are loved by a lot of people, they’re not restricted to only female fans or male fans…
SAM: You know, they’re just a good rock band. Gender is a secondary thing with them.
HAYLEY: And the fact is that a lot of female-fronted bands are the cool bands at the moment and are doing a lot of cool stuff.
And SAVAGES – a London band. Your impression of them?
SAM: I really, really like them, they’re an amazing band.
HAYLEY: They’re really good. It’s very cool in London for a reason. I find it a little bit elitist for my liking, but I think they’re amazing at what they do. There’s a kind of genius to having a really set vision and knowing what you’re about. It’s really coherent.
SAM: They’re really good musicians. It’s really arty and really serious. I just find the music a bit too angular – but it’s just a music thing. I like folky country stuff…
Things do seem to be changing a bit for female-led bands. It’s great timing maybe in terms of you bringing out an album now and seeing how the UK receives you in that sense. Also, the industry seems to be having to focus less on the nationality of bands…
HAYLEY: I think that’s true. I think there’s still a little bit of a stigma in London about being Australian, and particularly about being big in Australia, but that’s just a certain kind of press. Everywhere else, they’re just like, “Ah, you’re Australian” or they don’t even comment.
SAM: It’s a bit like the female thing…
HAYLEY: Yeah, it’s like, “Why would you even think about it…?”
SAM: Yeah, there are so many bands. Australian bands including small ones are playing around the world. It seems flights are cheaper and labels are really keen to interact with international bands. Back before the age of the Internet, labels wouldn’t invest in a band from overseas, because they were worried how they can get them into the UK and do tours, play and do press. But now you can be in Australia and do interviews. It’s great…
The Internet has been a real game-changer…
SAM: Yeah, it’s just totally opened everything up…
Pretty wrecked, having arrived just hours earlier from their show in Hong Kong, the current foursome (sisters Sari and Romy Lightman, who are taking time out to focus on their own project TASSEOMANCY, are due to reunite with Austra for the band’s final show of the tour in Bangkok) are found chilling out at the table in their room behind the stage of the Yebisu Garden Hall.
Katie Stelmanis, Maya Postepski, Dorian Wolf and Ryan Wonsiak have just wrapped up their set, opening up Day 2 of the festival, and are unwinding with drinks and plates of food from the buffet, muttering about how the meals provided are decidedly un-Japanese. After a brief chat about other bands on the festival’s lineup, some recommendations on where to visit in Tokyo, and teaching Katie how to explain her shellfish allergy in Japanese, we got to talking about their current tour and their thoughts on Tokyo.
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Welcome to Japan! How has your Asia tour been going so far?
DORIAN: Well this is only our second date in Asia, but so far so good! We were in Hong Kong a couple of days ago, and yeah that was a great show. We just recently got over our jet lag.
KATIE: I’m not over it, I’m still jet lagged. Our big Asia tour! We were supposed to co-headline a couple more shows after this but the co-headliner dropped out, we’ve cancelled shows. So yeah, we just decided it’d be great to plan our tour around five days in Tokyo!
How did you find your performance this afternoon? How did a Japanese crowd compare to what you’re more used to?
MAYA: Well, they were quite quiet, and respectful – that’s how I read it. So, it’s a bit different because we just finished a big European tour, and a big North American tour previous to that, where the audiences are like mental, and usually drunk or crazy – Dorian was just saying about our show in Dublin…
DORIAN: Yeah we played a show in Dublin, and everyone there was wasted, like eight hundred people… Even in the quiet moments during the song, we would quiet down and we could hear people yelling at each other, it was like a party constantly. When we finished the show, the promoter came backstage and was so proud, he was like, “Don’t you just love the Dublin crowd!? They’re so attentive to you guys, they listened to everything!” And we were like, “Really? Are you serious??” Anyway they were “remarkably attentive” as an audience that night, but yeah…
MAYA: So, compared to that, Japanese people seem really… I like it! I think it’s a cool way to watch a concert.
DORIAN: Yeah, I think it was good for a Sunday afternoon at 1pm, very appropriate for a crowd to be like that. They did seem to be very interested.
And how was the Hong Kong show? Quite a different setup to this one…
KATIE: It was nice, it was outside!
DORIAN: Yeah, it was outside so you could see the crazy skyline.
RYAN: Like right in the central area of the city, it was very beautiful.
You’re currently playing as a four-piece instead of six, how is that feeling?
KATIE: Well, we’ve been playing as a four-piece now for about six months, so we’re pretty used to it at this point. The twins are coming out to our last show of the year in Thailand, because they used to live there, so even though they’re not touring with us any more, it’s kind of special for them to be a part of that show.
DORIAN: Actually though, we’ve been touring with others sometimes too, like we brought a trombone player across Canada with us, and we also had a flautist play a couple of shows with us in Berlin, and then another flute player and saxophone player join us for a couple of weeks also in Europe, so yeah it’s a changing lineup in general.
In the UK, for some of your shows you had a sort of Asian-themed backdrop, but you didn’t use it here…
KATIE: We brought it! We have it…
MAYA: They didn’t have the right pole for it, so we brought it all over the place but unfortunately it didn’t work out today. We didn’t get to use it in Hong Kong either, it was also a different pole…
DORIAN: We brought this beautiful backdrop on our Asian tour and can’t even use it!
KATIE: I sleep with it as my blanket, that’s why I brought it – I wrap myself in it.
You guys now have five days free in Tokyo, what are you most looking forward to doing?
EVERYONE: Eating!
RYAN: Fashion.
MAYA: I also want to do karaoke!
KATIE: To be honest, I’m not really excited by the idea of doing karaoke in a private room.
RYAN: Oh, you want to be on stage?
KATIE: I’d like to be on stage! What’s the point of doing karaoke for like three people?
RYAN: It’s for us!
MAYA: We can get drunk and make fun of you.
KATIE: Yeah, but it’s so much better when it’s in front of like a hundred people.
DORIAN: Yeah, but you’re one of those people that does karaoke and actually impresses people.
MAYA: I’d like to go chill in that spa in Haneda!
…Hakone.
MAYA: Why do I keep calling it Haneda? What’s Haneda?
…It’s an airport.
MAYA: Oh yeah, I’ll go to the airport – cool!
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With regards to women in music, do you feel like circumstances have gotten better in recent years?
KATIE: I don’t know. It’s difficult to say whether or not anything’s improved. I think it’s just an entirely different landscape for women, it’s just always going to be a different experience than a man in the music industry. What I see right now is that there’s a major popularity of having female solo projects – it seems like that’s a way that people really kind of identify with women. For a long time, it kind of felt like there wasn’t much happening in the way of bands… Popstars are so tied to the visual, and a character in a way. I found that there was a real lack of female musicians that didn’t have to be tied to some kind of character in order to be noticed, and so that was always kind of a big problem for me. But, I think even this year it’s getting better and better. I think the band Haim is a great example of a female group that is pretty much known for their technical musical abilities over anything else, and they’re like topping the charts all over the world, so I think that they’re a really big triumph for women in music.
MAYA: I mean it’s always getting better, but it’s a difficult industry, like many other industries, to be a woman. You know it’s weird when you look at festivals and the lineups are practically all men. It’s still a reality that unfortunately for some reason, it’s not just that women aren’t playing music, that we’re not interested or not good at music, it’s just kind of a dude’s world. I’m glad that we are a band that can function and survive, and there are other bands like Haim and tonnes of other awesome bands that are making it happen. It’s weird when you actually look at statistics…
KATIE: Because the reality is there are a lot of successful female-fronted bands right now, but relative to the amount of successful bands in the world, it’s probably less than ten percent.
MAYA: It’s weird when I hear these questions – we still have to talk about it in this way, like, “Oh you’re a woman drummer… you’re a woman musician…” It’s still a category on its own, and because I guess it’s just still not normal. It’s hard because I don’t have a definite answer like how I feel about it, but yeah it’s weird.
How is the electro scene in Toronto at the moment?
RYAN: We’re never in Toronto…
KATIE: Yeah, we don’t know. I loved instrumental electronic music for a really long time and didn’t really think that there was any sort of scene in Toronto. Then after touring, I sort of started meeting all these artists who were like, “Oh, I’m from Toronto!” And I’m like, “Really, you live here?!”
MAYA: Yeah, there are also a lot of electronic bands in Toronto that are really popular, like obviously Crystal Castles… We toured with a band called Diana, they were on our tour in North American and for some of Europe, and they’re doing really, really well, and they’re electronic. So, there’re lots of cool bands coming out of Toronto that are under the electronic umbrella. I’m happy that’s happening, because growing up there was nothing besides folky, indie music, so now it’s really flipped and everyone’s on the electronic scene.
DORIAN: I’m just trying to think of other bands in Toronto that are making it big…
RYAN: There’s a good underground scene in Toronto, there’s a lot of house, a lot of dubstep, a lot of techno… So many parties every day of the week I’d say.
KATIE: Ryan’s the only one who knows about it. I feel like you’re the only one that knows about it because you’re not from Toronto, you came to Toronto and were like, “Where’s the dance party?” and you looked for it. I never would’ve known about it, ever. I feel like you experience a city differently when you move there and you’re like, “I need to figure out what’s going on!”
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You released your second album Olympia earlier this year, and it has a very different vibe to the previous one – how do you think it’s been received so far?
KATIE: I think it’s been good. I think with our first album, we kind of went from zero to real band, and it felt like a really big surge in popularity. It didn’t feel like that with this album. I think now we’re a band, we’ve established ourselves, and this is an album that is one of the hundreds we will make.
MAYA: Yeah, I guess when you’re a fresh face, everyone points their attention at you, but then when you’ve kind of established your name a little bit, it’s like, “Oh, there’s another Austra album out – cool… Well, there’s also this awesome new person!!” So it’s fine, I’m happy with it. At first, we weren’t sure if people liked it, but now as we’ve been touring a lot more, I’ve been seeing a lot more people singing the songs and I think it just took a little time for people to get into it, because it’s a bit of a different album. Listening to it takes a bit more time maybe, you know, it’s not like a hit Top 40 album.
KATIE: It’s an introspective album.
Where are you heading from this point? Have you already started working on material for a third album?
MAYA: Yeah, we’re always working – you don’t just stop and say, “I’m not working now.” We all constantly do our own work and it just interweaves itself into Austra eventually – all of us just keep working on our private stuff. We’re going to try and take a little bit of a holiday after Thailand, but then into the New Year, I definitely see us working a lot on new stuff.
How do you feel the Internet has affected the rise of electronic music?
KATIE: I think that electronic music has become much more popular because it’s kind of like punk music, in a sense – anyone with a computer can make it, it’s so accessible, and there’re so many success stories of people just using GarageBand and selling hundreds of thousands of records. It’s kind of cool that basically anyone has an entire studio at their fingertips now and I think that has a lot to do with electronic music increasing. It’s also just that cities are changing – in most cities in North America now, you can’t really afford to be in a band and have a job, but you can afford to make music on your computer. Being in a band is so expensive, but if you can make music on your computer, you have everything yourself.
MAYA: Yeah, I mean it’s cheap, it’s fast, and you can virtually start with no experience. If you know how to go on YouTube, Google “How to use Ableton,” and you have the time and the patience to teach yourself, it’s awesome. It’s like, I’m not going to go and learn how to play the clarinet by watching YouTube, but you can do that with computer programs.
KATIE: It’s cool, it’s created this open playing field because there isn’t really any ‘right way’ to use Ableton or GarageBand or ProTools, like there’s no one correct way – everyone kind of interprets it and figures it out in their own way. Right now, there’s so much really interesting music that’s happening just because people are kind of discovering it from a completely outsider perspective.
DORIAN: It’s really fun to tour with bands and find out how they use Ableton, because everybody uses Ableton, every band we tour with has a backing track of some sort, and they all use it differently! Every single person I’ve talked to, and that’s really cool, like weird tricks and things like that.
MAYA: I think also at the same time though, there’s something to be said about the negative aspects of it. There’re awesome bands that are coming out that have taught themselves from nothing and they’re excellent, but then there’s so much oversaturation of not-that-great music. So I think that what I’d like to see in the next 10-15 years is a change of some kind of taste avenue. I just think there’s so much bad music out there right now.
DORIAN: What are you saying? We need to eliminate it?
MAYA: No, no, no… but you couldn’t just be in a band 30-40 years ago!
KATIE: Yes you could! Do you know how many bad bands there are in the world? As long as there’s good music, there’s going to be bad music. Every single musical genre is oversaturated with bad music.
DORIAN: I think what’s going to happen is we’re going to forget about the bad ones.
KATIE: Yeah, that’s what happens – the good ones withstand time and the bad ones don’t.
MAYA: Yeah, but you know what I mean, like everyone can be a photographer now with iPhones…
KATIE: Yeah, but only the good ones stand out.
MAYA: Yeah! I guess I’m just like… I don’t know…
DORIAN: I don’t know, maybe that’s a valid point – do we look at more crappy pictures in our lives than people 50 years ago? We have more access to them now.
KATIE: How many people in the ‘50s and ‘60s wanted to be musicians and just walked around with an acoustic guitar wanting to be the next Bob Dylan. Think about how many of those people then were probably hundreds of thousands and everyone was just like, “I hate this instrument.”
DORIAN: I know, but we just spent the past 20 minutes talking about why electronic music in Toronto is so huge now, and it’s because of the ease of recording music. Well, everyone back then had an acoustic guitar and a microphone that costs a hundred dollars…
KATIE: But that’s electronic music versus non-electronic music.
MAYA: I just wanted to flip it! Because I think it’s great that people have access to this resource, but then as a result of that you get a lot of garbage – that’s all I wanted to say.
DORIAN: I want all the garbage to be eliminated too! I don’t know how to do it, but…
KATIE: You can’t call anything ‘garbage’!
MAYA: I’m just saying there’s more saturation.
KATIE: How much music in the world do you think was called ‘garbage’ at one point and became like ‘revolutionary.’ I would never ever in a million years want to annihilate the ‘garbage’ music from the world, because I think it’s hugely influential for the landscape of music in general.
DORIAN: Well that’s very Canadian of you… but I don’t like ‘garbage’ music.
KATIE: You guys sound like such assholes! You do!
MAYA: He said that! Not me! I was just trying to flip the argument, I wasn’t doing like a ‘God’ thing where it’s like, “This is good and this is bad.” I was just saying in general it’s more saturated – period. It’s just your opinion that there is no such thing as ‘garbage’ music.
KATIE: This is why we don’t do interviews all together.
DORIAN: I appreciate a healthy argument.
MAYA: Dorian used to be on the debate team, so don’t do interviews with him.
DORIAN: Excuse me but this is my creative outlet – I like to express myself and I don’t think it’s appropriate that you annihilate my creative opinion.
Many know AMANDA PALMER as one half of iconic duo THE DRESDEN DOLLS. And many across the world now know Ms. Palmer as the artist who took our breath away at her recent TED talk where she talked passionately about the importance of artists asking for help. She’s an engaging artist and an engaging human being. And this is why she is much loved.
Amanda Palmer is touring with The Grand Theft Orchestra and is about to hit Manchester’s Ritz and London’s Roundhouse among other venues across the UK and she’s also doing Glastonbury this year. Nothing is going to stop the Palmer whirlwind from spreading her industry-savvy gospel and holding the odd ninja gig here and there. A firm believer in the power of the individual as well as the power of the supportive community, with a fabulously intimate relationship with her audience, Amanda remains an essential voice in the increasingly distorted arts industry – a calm voice of reason and guidance in turbulent times.
In addition to legions of adoring fans, she has her fair share of critics and takes any comments gracefully on the chin. Her historical Kickstarter campaign that exceeded an incredible 1 million pounds to fund her latest album “Theatre Is Evil” was followed by controversy over non-payment of volunteer musicians – a heated issue which was eventually resolved. Controversy or not, the campaign set the bar for artists in terms of appealing to fans for voluntary funding.
We catch up with Amanda ahead of her UK dates and we find that she’s more than ready to get up close and personal with her people.
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You’ve talked recently in a Guardian article about the struggles you had as a child, fitting in, being in a family where you felt isolated. Can you talk a little bit more about that isolation? It seems that it may have led you to discover other things in life…
Well, I think it’s really typical for people with artistic temperaments to feel either alienated or isolated as kids, especially if you’re not in an incredibly artistic environment, because things can feel as though they just don’t make sense. And it was always my dream as a kid, as a teenager, to wind up as an adult living in an artistic environment. I didn’t want to be like my parents, I didn’t want to be like most of the people in the town I grew up in, where there was very little art and culture. So, I was really drawn to the city and I was really drawn to the idea of artistic communities. I was fascinated and obsessed with the 20s and the 60s and art movements and Weimar and cabaret any historical depictions of scenes where there was a real artistic hotbed that I was really drawn to. And I think that’s pretty typical of most artists.
Do you remember the moment when you realized you were maybe really different from people around? Was there any moment where you felt “This is going to be exciting” or did you just feel “Oh no, this is tough…”?
I had one moment that was a turning point, and it was literally a seismic sea change in my life. It was the night before 8th grade, so I would have been 13. And I had spent my childhood and most of 6th and 7th grade just desperately trying to fit in, desperately trying to belong and impress the popular kids – I was imitating their behaviour and my sister in a bid to find acceptance: shopping at the mall, matching my hair scrunchie with my socks, and stuff like that. And I remember looking in the mirror and thinking, “This really isn’t working and it’s a no-win situation.”
And I sort of decided overnight to reject everything that I’d be trying to align with. So I went, overnight, from being a kid who was trying to fit in to being the kid who was loudly separating themselves. I dyed all my clothes black, bitched about all the kids I was hanging out with that I didn’t like, rejected my sister and her way of life, and went down a very committed path of being punk rock and ‘other.’ I was always a weird kid, but I finally decided just to embrace it, instead of fight it.
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I saw of course the recent TED talk you did that has done really well online. The point you make about artists asking for help made some people, even artists, feel very uncomfortable, it seems – and there’s been some backlash to the speech. But how do you feel about the arts community in terms of how it’s embracing or rejecting what you stand for?
Well, the majority of the art community stand in recognition of the fact that the system is changing. And we don’t necessarily know what direction it is headed in. But, we’re starting to sense some of the new guidelines, because money and distribution and digital sharing and the factors that are just chaotically shifting right now mean that pretty much every discipline is redefining itself. And the way forward isn’t necessarily going to be crowdfunding per se, but there is a universal truth in that if the machine or the machinery behind traditional distribution systems like publishing or labels really is going to collapse and something else is going to take its place, artists can either proactively align with it and control it or they can just bitch and moan about the fact that it’s not the 80s anymore.
And the talk about asking wasn’t even really supposed to be a solution or a roadmap to some golden age and magic bullet of how arts will be funded and how all artists will be okay, but it was more a discussion of, as artists and as people, why we are so afraid to ask for help, and what does that mean about our culture right now that we’re afraid to ask for help.
I wrote that talk specifically aimed at musicians who I had discussions with who told me they were really impressed by my attitude and by my Kickstarter but they felt like they were unable to ask for help because it was too shameful, or they felt too embarrassed, or they felt too inadequate, or they felt too privileged, or they felt something that was blocking their ability to just ask for help. That talk was really meant for them, but then it wound up resonating more universally, which was surprising to me, but it also brought up some interesting questions about what is happening in culture right now that it resonates so much with people.
We’re living in quite unsettling times… just seeing the way that so many artists are afraid to engage say with the Pussy Riot cause or who are engaging with social issues but only in a detached manner. From your perspective, where are we at right now with the link between society, politics and music? Do you think it could get better? Do you think musicians need to be better networked, be more open about these links?
I think there’s a lot of fear right now. And I think especially in the States, the way it’s manifesting is squishing out in all sorts of odd shapes. Just seeing what’s happening politically, right now, last night, just the kind of deep divides that are happening between the desire to stay staunchly conservatively in the past and those trying to evolve the agenda – it’s frightening.
I was at an event in New York a couple of weeks ago and was really excited to meet a couple of the girls from Pussy Riot which was fantastic, and one of them was a Dresden Dolls fan, so I was deliriously happy! But you look at the situation that they’re in and you look at the statistics of their culture’s take on that situation, and some of the things happening in the States right now, even just around the topic of crowdfunding – I’m finding myself astonished that people in America are following an agenda that is so fear-driven, that is so conservative, even the people who are identifying as liberal.
But, in my opinion, it always comes down to fear. And when you’re living in a decline, when the economy is frightening, the environment is frightening, the ability to actually make ends meet is a challenging reality – it’s just traditionally what happens. People become afraid, and as soon as you start working from a place of fear, everything goes down the drain – arts, culture, the progression of politics – everything suffers, because people refuse to take risks and then you get the snowball effect of all of those things meeting each other.
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I was talking to a Manchester musician yesterday and we were agreeing that now is actually the time for all groups who have been undermined in the arts industry to get together now, that it’s important for people to network globally now, to tour and remain open, to learn how to network and understand their evolving industry and the world around them. With your tour coming up, are you feeling very pumped to see how people respond to you now in these difficult socio-economic times?
One reason that I love touring and that I think it’s so important to constantly go and physically connect, is that as I tour, it’s not just about my band getting on stage and people buying a ticket and seeing our show – it’s about the community that gathers around that show. You know, being able to look around The Roundhouse and see 3000 people and feel that you’re not alone, and feel that there are others who aren’t working from a place of fear and don’t have a negative agenda and believe in art and truth and messiness, and the things that we spend hours and hours discussing on the Internet – and discussing things on the Internet is one thing and actually getting together and being with that community in person is another – that’s really important.
People need to remember that a connection can be a connection, but a connection in person can supercede all value. And I love that people use my shows to find each other, and to feel not alone and to find their community and make new friends, and it’s a communion of sorts in an era where religion has gone crazy and none of us really trust it – this is kind of our replacement. We follow bands and singer-songwriters and artists, not just because we love their work, but because when we go to a show, it’s akin to going to church. We want to be with our congregation and we want to be with the artist themselves.
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What words of advice, or words of comfort, do you have for artists out there who admire what you do, and also admire other musicians who are working to make the music industry more open, more diverse?
I would say don’t forget that it’s not a competition, and that you need to help each other! I think one of the things that can really destroy the fabric of a community, especially the music community, is bands and artists feeling that there isn’t enough pie to go around and if someone else is succeeding it means that they’re failing, and it’s just not true – and that attitude kind of weakens the ecosystem. So you need to help and support your fellow artists and give them a lift up if they need it and applaud their success if they bypass you. Remember that acting competitively weakens the artistic ecosystem – you need to act cooperatively.
Minnesota’s SICK OF SARAH lead singer ABISHA UHL is back in Japan. Considering it to be her first home, she lived there until she was 18, spending a lot of that time on military bases.
The five-piece band that brought Abisha to fame started out in 2005 and things have been busy since then, having produced 2 LPs, including their 2011 album “2205” shrewdly released through BitTorrent, achieving platinum-equivalent status. The band is known for stage-blasting performances, Abisha often seen crowdsurfing into the crowds. She loves the human contact with her fans and is one of those rare people who will spend real time with them, even joining them for a spot of sightseeing.
We met up with Sick of Sarah last year in London when they supported LA band UH HUH HER at Shepherd’s Bush Empire. A fine old time was had backstage and SoS went on to blow the headliner right off the stage. (READ OUR INTERVIEW WITH SICK OF SARAH HERE)
Almost one year on, we meet up withAbishain Shibuya, Tokyo for a photo shoot (SEE OUR FULL PHOTO GALLERY HERE) and to talk music, touring and Japan. We settle ourselves into a cheap izakaya with edamame and “samurai sake” before getting down to business.
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Welcome back to Japan! How long since you were last here?
I want to say about 3 years ago. I was visiting my parents in Okinawa and then I came to Tokyo to do a radio interview with Tokyo FM.
So, you grew up in Okinawa before moving to the States in your late teens. For people who don’t know, what are the differences between growing up in Okinawa compared to say Tokyo?
So, the difference between Okinawa and Tokyo is Okinawa has a very islander kind of lifestyle, it’s a lot more chilled and laid back, as opposed to Tokyo where it’s way more high energy, lots of people going places constantly – there are a lot more people – that’s the biggest difference. I really liked the islander style – it’s so laid back and I’m still like that. Tokyo is probably a little too much for me… I mean I love it, it’s like a party here, which is also fun.
What are some of your favourite things about Japan?
I love everything about Japan! I definitely consider Japan my first home, and I’m always going to consider it my first home, just because I feel more at home here than I do in the States. I like the people, I love the food and the vibe – people are so friendly and so down to earth, you can leave your bike somewhere and not have to lock it up, you don’t have to worry about people stealing your shit – it’s really cool.
As a band you’ve never toured Japan, is that something you’re looking into?
We would absolutely love to tour here. It’s just so expensive to do that, so that’s one of our dilemmas. But yeah we want to tour Japan – it’d be crazy! I would love to come over here with HUNTER VALENTINEor GIRL IN A COMA – bands that we’ve toured with in the States, because you kind of get this ladykiller tour thing that we’ve got going on, and we’ve done it all over the US and Canada. But, yeah I’m sure there are groups over here we’d love to play with – GROUP A would be the number 1 band we would want to tour with here!
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When did you start getting into music?
I started playing the drums when I was about 11 or 12. I played the drums for a couple of years, then as soon as I picked up a guitar when I was 13, I stopped playing drums and focused all my attention on writing. I started writing right away – I had a knack for it. Both of my brothers were musicians, so I really looked up to them and that’s what’s really got me inspired to play music.
I just grew into it and my brother was very encouraging, and that really made me happy. I wanted to be like my brothers – I was like, “They’re so cool!” so that was definitely a reason I continued doing it.
How long after you moved to the States did you form Sick of Sarah?
Well I moved there when I was 18 and I formed the band when I was 23, so I kind of lived a little bit, did some college, dropped out… I was 25 when we actually got discovered. We did this showcase that we really didn’t want to do because it was like 500 dollars to be in this showcase. They really wanted us to be in it, but we were like, “We’re not gonna pay 500 bucks to be in this show!” Then, they ended up just putting us in it anyway because they really wanted us to play it, and there was a guy from Hollywood Records who really liked us and told his friend to watch us. Then we were flown out to LA to record a five-track demo, which is really bad looking back at it now, but that’s how we got our manager. He then formed an independent record label, and 2 albums later this is where we’re at.
We’re now working on our third album, we’ve travelled all over the world, we’ve toured with THE BANGLES, we’ve made good friends with HUNTER VALENTINE, we’re friends with HEART, we’ve opened up for JOAN JETT – we’ve done a lot of really cool things and played with a lot of really cool bands… GOD-DES AND SHE, GIRL IN A COMA… It’s been a great ride and we’re still on it, so it’s fun!
How do you feel about being a female lead singer in an industry dominated by males? Do you find you’re treated differently?
I don’t feel like I’ve had any weird experiences and I don’t feel like I’ve ever been treated differently, but maybe I just wasn’t paying attention. I’ve played with guy bands and sometimes they’ll kind of brush us off, but then they’ll watch us play and and they’re like, “Ok, you guys are good!” I’ve noticed, I guess, that we get treated differently, no matter who’s watching, but then after they hear you play, you gain more respect. I think you’ll get that whether or not you’re a female or a male though.
And how do you feel about the state of the music scene for women in the industry? Do all-female bands get as much exposure?
I would think that, exposure-wise, it’s almost harder if you’re in a guy band, because the music industry is just saturated with guy bands. So if you’re in a female band, people might take more notice because it’s not as common to have that – there are fewer female musicians than male musicians, so it might actually be more of an advantage. I’ve always heard female musicians kind of get the brush off though.
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What was the deal with the BitTorrent re-release of your album “2205” in 2011?
Yeah, we released our music to BitTorrent – they liked our music and they asked us if we wanted to do this, so they were basically like, “We’re going to release your record for free on BitTorrent” and we broke the charts as far as downloaded records. Like we had over 1.5 million downloads of the record, so that was a great thing – it was awesome.
Amazing! So where is Sick of Sarah musically at the moment? Can we expect a new release soon?
Yes, we’ll be releasing a new album. We have all our songs demoed up and now it’s just a matter of kind of working out the kinks. We’re going to record at the end of summer, so it should be released before 2014.
Have you guys picked a title yet?
It’s going to be called “Abisha Rules!” No, we haven’t thought of a name yet, we’ll see… But I am thinking that “Abisha Rules” would be a fantastic name! Or “Abisha’s Awesome” or “Abisha’s Ichiban.” I’m going to talk to the girls about it – I hope they’re down with it? Probably not…
Any crazy stories from your last tours?
It was really cute in London – we ran into some girls at a Chipotle or something, and the girls literally dropped all their food when they saw us. That was really funny! There’s some crazy shit, people are funny and they’re aggressive, and we get a bunch of cool presents. And marriage proposals are fun – I think I’m engaged to at least a few hundred girls right now, and maybe like two guys. Oh bras, yeah, we get bras thrown on stage, which is fun. We got a really big pair of panties one time, and a huge bra! People drop their pants and take off their panties, which is a little strange. I’m like, “Uh… you might need that!”
SHATTERJAPAN met up with Darren Williams, aka British producer and DJ STAR SLINGER, in the offices of major entertainment company Yoshimoto Kogyo in Shinjuku. After waiting in the massive cement hall with the rest of the press for 20 minutes, I was lead into a tiny conference room where a very tired-looking Darren was waiting, and after a quick chat about the best places to go shopping in Tokyo we discussed touring, Japan and the state of the music industry.
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First of all, welcome to Japan! Is it your first time here?
Yeah, it’s my first time in Japan, second time in Asia – the first time was Singapore, I went there just before I went to Australia. I prefer Japan a lot more – it’s got more of an identity. I just think it’s more vibrant, but at the same time it’s quite welcoming, the food’s amazing, the architecture’s nuts, it’s just like a massive metropolis, so it’s good!
You arrived in Tokyo on Wednesday – have you had a chance to see the city?
So far, I’ve been doing a lot of press. Yesterday, I did like 8 interviews, coz I’ve got this album coming out soon, and then today the same thing. Also last night, I did a live stream in a department store, Parco, at 2.5D studios – it’s hidden away. I wish it’d been recorded, but it was just a live stream. I think only 1000 people tuned in, but that’s quite a lot.
I wish I’d known about it! So you’re supporting Gold Panda on this current tour – how did you guys meet?
I’ve known GOLD PANDA for a while – we have the same manager and I remixed his track “Marriage” a couple of years back, so we’ve seen each other a lot since then. He needed a support act to take with him and I just said, “Yeah, I’m keen!” I’m just here for the Japan leg of the tour because I’ve never been before – seemed like a good opportunity. It’s good to be here, for sure.
When is the new album coming out?
The new album should be out in the UK this summer, and in the US… maybe Japan, depending on what the label want to do here – I have to ask them…
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How did you get into music in the first place?
By being around it. I guess it depends what sort of music, but I think I got most of it from the radio, even the dancier stuff. I would hear it on late night radio, like Pete Tong’s Essential Selection. There were a lot of dance DJs on UK radio, so thank you to the BBC for exposing me at a young age!
What were you doing before your music took off?
I was working in an art house cinema when I got spotted by my manager, and I had to give that up because I was playing so many shows and eventually made a living out of this. I’d just finished my degree in music technology. I don’t know what I’d be doing if I wasn’t doing this. I’d probably still be at the art house watching films every day, getting paid really badly for it.
As a producer and DJ, what does your work involve?
It’s hard to explain what a producer does. “Producer” can be quite a broad term, but I think it’s someone who can make a track from scratch. A lot of people claim to be producers. And some producers don’t play instruments, but most of us – the hip hop guys – play instruments. So we are musicians in our own right, but we also record and know how to structure a song. Rick Rubin would have session musicians, the same with Mark Ronson, but I’m sure he can play one or two instruments…
What’s the process of remixing for bands?
If you do it without permission, it’s a bit of a rogue thing – I still do that if I like a song – but for the most part now, I do official remixes where they contact me. Now I’m actively getting requests each week and it’s quite cool. I don’t say yes to everything and obviously we work out fees, but sometimes I do favours so it’s quite an open thing. I just do what I want and sometimes remix for money.
So, how did the Childish Gambino remix come about?
CHILDISH GAMBINO followed me on Twitter and posted something on his blog about one of my tunes – he said something like “It’s so dope, I wanna kiss it.” I thought it was cool because this dude was a big hipster at the time and wrote for “30 Rock” so it was a big deal for me. I even met the guy recently in Chicago and warmed up for him – I got to meet him and say thank you… he’s so cool.
What stands out as your favourite show to have played?
In terms of crazy and silly good, it was Music Hall of Williamsburg in New York. I think 800 people turned up which isn’t that many, but it looked really big and a hundred people got up from the crowd and got on the stage – it was insane. There’s a video on YouTube of everyone on stage dancing, some of them pretty badly. They were dancing around me, and this is when I used to use an MPD for live performances so I’m just there hoping nobody knocks my equipment over. It went really well, I’ll always remember that show.
Last year you toured the US with Shlohmo – how do you know him?
I know SHLOHMO just because I was a fan and I asked him to come on tour with me, and he said yes! We met him at the airport… we hadn’t even met before that point. This is the great thing about music – when you’re a fan of someone, you can curate your own tour. If you’re headlining, it’s like a dream because you can take who you want on tour with you. You spend a lot of time in the van together and get to know each other.
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How do you feel about the Manchester music scene?
The Manchester scene is not so much a scene as a few cliques – a few club nights that are doing their own thing. Like HOYA:HOYA has two great DJs working for them: Krystal Klear and Illum Sphere. Also, we have a lot of people rolling through from everywhere, because from September until New Year we have the huge warehouse event THE WAREHOUSE PROJECT. The lineup seems to change every year so it’s a different vibe each time, and the artists are always A-listers so you do see quite a lot of big names rolling through.
Who played the last Warehouse Project you went to?
The last one I went to had a lot of older people like Basement Jaxx and Todd Edwards in the smaller rooms, then Madeon in the big room, and lots of big EDM stuff. That’s a good thing I think. There are three different rooms so you can see whoever you want, but I spent my time in the small room.
So, tell me about Jet Jam, the club night that you organise…
JET JAM is something I kind of started by accident. I met some people in Slovenia, at my second ever show in Europe – they were both visual artists and booked me to play a party they were throwing and playing visuals at. I made friends with them and came back to meet them just for a mini-holiday. We all love travelling so we wanted a party we could throw anywhere we go. So far we’ve done five Jet Jams so far in Lubiana, Seattle, New York, LA and London, but we plan on doing more this summer. And I’ve released two mix tapes to promote Jet Jam parties.
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What is the best thing about what you do?
It’s quite simple and obvious, but the best thing is you make a living doing what you enjoy. But because I can be grumpy just like anybody else, I have to stop a minute and think about how good my life is, how amazing it is that I can travel and it doesn’t seem like a big deal anymore – coming to Japanfor work didn’t seem like a big deal and I’m just really thankful.
How do you think the music industry is doing, with the collapse of major labels and saturation of Internet artists?
I think it’s definitely suffering a little bit, but it’s just changing. There’s so much new stuff that people are obsessed with, like iTunes and Spotify, and I’m no different – I’m obsessed with technology so I listen to it – but it’s pretty sad for physical sales. But the truth of the matter is people still want to see live music.
For a few years, your music was available online for free – is that still the case?
There was a link to it on my website but not anymore, because people have been buying it and I’ve been making a decent income just from being on iTunes. But, you can still get it for free and I’m not taking that down. I put some of the later stuff on labels, but you don’t get as much money from that because they have to cover costs. So before you get signed to a label, I think it’s good as a producer to put out your own music, put it on iTunes via a distribution service like Tunecore. You don’t need a label to be on iTunes now, so you should do that. I think you get the majority of the royalties – you get like 70% of each track. I think I sold 200,000 on iTunes, which is good.
So what other advice do you have for budding DJs and producers?
Just put out as much music as you can to gain attention, because essentially you’d be lying if you said you didn’t want attention – you want to seek it. I watched a documentary on a guy, a photographer, who’s only just becoming popular and he’s now 80 or so. He doesn’t regret it, but I would totally regret it. He let his flat become cluttered with paintings and someone discovered it. I think he was also the first colour photographer, so he had photos and negatives up to the ceiling. I would totally go mental with that lifestyle. Don’t become old and jaded and forget what you wanted – I think you should definitely go for everything while you can.
SHATTERJAPAN catches up with Derwin of GOLD PANDA in Shinjuku at the Tokyo offices of major entertainment company YOSHIMOTO KOGYO. Our interview is held in a small conference room, and upon entering I’m met by a table littered with empty packets of (fittingly) Panda Pocky and Calbee snacks. Derwin is seated behind, unassuming and smiling, and apologizing for having his laptop on the table to keep in touch with his girlfriend. After a quick chat about shopping in Harajuku, we get down to the business of life in Japan, anime and electronic music.
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Welcome back to Tokyo! How does it feel to be here again?
It’s always good to be back! I just feel like I don’t see enough of Japan when I’m here though. I always just see Shibuya – it’s good, but I end up just drinking.
You used to live here – when was that?
I don’t even remember the exact date now, but it was maybe 2004. I came here on a working holiday, but couldn’t really find anything that I wanted to do so ended up teaching English – I did “eikaiwa” companies and stuff… I don’t know anything about English, I was just teaching to fund my travels, but then I didn’t travel so it just went towards funding “izakayas” (traditional Japanese pubs) and that was it really. When I went back to the UK, I went to university in London and studied Japanese – I did it completely the wrong way around.
I live in Berlin now, so I’ve been trying to learn German. I made an effort for a while taking classes, because I thought it’d be really easy after Japanese, that I’d just pick it up, but I think as you get older you have to really sit down and study. Because I had such an interest in Japan, I had a desire to learn the language, but with German I don’t have any, other than to help me with my daily life.
What spurred your love of Japan in the first place?
Ah, that was manga, well anime – “AKIRA” mainly. That was the main thing for a lot of people I think, especially in the UK, because we only had about four films for ages, like “AKIRA” and “FIST OF THE NORTH STAR.” I can’t remember what the other ones were. That was all there was, and I wanted to find out more. I must’ve been 12 when I saw “Akira” – I was like, “Why aren’t all cartoons like this?!” I was watching “Dogtanion.”
Has your time in Japan influenced you?
Yeah, it’s definitely influenced me musically – the atmosphere and certain sounds have definitely come out in my music as a result of being in Japan.
I don’t know about personality-wise. It’s probably harder to see that now. I think when I was here for a year, I got annoyed that people sometimes weren’t straight with me, that they didn’t say what they were really thinking – whether they actually wanted to have a beer with me or if they were just being polite. But, I eventually found out who my friends were. It was difficult. Especially let’s say 10 years ago, it was – and it still is maybe – a novelty to be a foreigner or to have a gaijin friend. It can be quite weird for some people.
Would you ever consider coming back to Japan to live and operate from here?
Yeah! I wouldn’t mind. I’ve never been to Kyushu – I should really go. I’d like to do maybe 6 months or something – that would be cool – and not do shows, just come here to do something else, travel around and see places that I’ve wanted to see but have never seen.
But for touring, it would be so difficult… I don’t think I could live here for a long period of time, because there are so many shows and opportunities to do shows in Europe. Here, no-one’s going to pay for a flight for me from Tokyo or Osaka. Whereas if I’m based in Berlin, it’s easier for me to just go and do Italy or Switzerland on a Friday or Saturday night and be home by Sunday morning.
Touring is a priority because it’s the only way for me to make money. I’m not forced to do it, I could get a job I guess, but you do expose new people to your music all the time by doing it, and yeah that’s my main source of income. I do make money from selling music and it being played on radio stations around the world or whatever, but it’s not enough to live on. Maybe like 20 years ago, I would’ve made a lot more, but not now.
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How did you get into music in the first place?
My uncle was making music – he was a producer – and when I was 15, he gave me an Atari and a sampler that had 10 seconds of sample time. I was really into hip hop, so I started sampling my dad’s records with no idea what I was doing. Then I got more and more into it. I had friends who were really into hip hop, and they’d buy all the rare funk records that were basically responsible for a lot of hip hop in the 90s. I couldn’t afford any of those records, so I just went to thrift stores and charity shops and bought used records, really bad stuff. But in turn, I found my own way of making music, using samples that were less obvious and more treated, I guess, with equipment.
Yeah it just went on from there, really. I never had the confidence to send music to anyone or send demos out, and then I was saved by Myspace. You could just upload your music to the Internet, and you could kind of create your own page for people to see. I don’t know what would’ve happened otherwise. I can definitely thank my Myspace page for my current state, because that’s how I was contacted by management and labels.
There was definitely a Myspace golden age where labels were like, “We don’t have to go through demos anymore, we’ll just go online! If they’ve got loads of views, it’s like guaranteed success.” I think Myspace had its time but now it’s gone. I mean there’s SoundCloud and Bandcamp, but I think labels are less interested because people can generate money now themselves. Labels want to generate money for you and take a percentage.
How do you feel about the state of the music industry now, particularly with the dominance of the Internet?
The Internet is like its own worst enemy in a way. Everyone loves it until they want to make some money from it and find out they can’t. It doesn’t devalue music, but there’s so much out there, it’s hard to know where you should be listening or putting your money if you need to. I don’t know, I don’t buy digital music, and I don’t download it for free either, so I guess I’m not really in the argument.
I buy vinyl, like old records, to sample and make music, but I also enjoy records – I’ve always loved buying vinyl, so now I’ve got an excuse to buy more vinyl, to make more music, and at the same time I can buy new records by people I like. I’m just terrible with digital music because I was into physical copies so much. Maybe if I was 10 years younger, I’d just have everything on a hard drive but I like to have something physical – I still buy VHS.
How has the UK industry changed since you were getting established?
There are definitely more people in hoodies pressing buttons on stage and not doing much, which I’m partly responsible for. I think I got lucky because it was at a point where electronic music became popular again, because rock music and bands got boring in the UK, so I was definitely lucky there. I think UK dance music is super interesting and has really good stuff, but unfortunately with the Internet, there’s another 200 versions of Burial every week which you have to sift through, so that’s not so good. But there’s always someone doing something interesting that attempts to push dance music as a whole in a certain direction – I think we can be proud of that.
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You’ve been touring pretty extensively recently, how’s that been going?
Good, I’ve just done New Zealand and Australia, Singapore on the way here. I guess you can’t really call it one big tour, because I’ve not been going from one place to another – I get to go home in the middle for a week or so. But it does end up pretty much feeling like you’re doing it all the time because there are so many weekend shows. So if you fly out on a Thursday morning, then you play Friday, Saturday and you’re back on Sunday, every week. If you tour a country like America you have to stay there a whole month… it gets pretty knackering.
Any specific challenges or highlights?
Melbourne was good. There are highlights and low points all the time, and they happen so often that you tend to forget or it just gets mashed into one memory. Mexico was pretty bad, the show was great but it was my first show with a new setup, and everyone’s like, “Oh, we’ve got this show for you in Mexico, so just go there and practise.” I get there, and it’s like 4000 people in a field, and it was just a mess because I hadn’t practiced properly. But also at the same time, I was able to find out what the problems were and go on with it. My live set’s forever changing, so I’m never set with just one setup – there are always new machines.
A particular high point? Playing on a beach to 50 people in the Philippines in an electrical storm with water coming down… and then playing in Detroit on a massive stage in front of like 7000 people at a festival called Movement, and you can see Canada across the water from the stage.
I prefer smaller gigs, like 200-500 capacity. Anything more, especially anything over 1000 gets lost, I think, because I’m not an artist that has a huge visual element, so I can’t rely on that to entertain people, and if the venue’s too big, people can’t see what you’re doing and in turn they think that the music should be almost like a DJ set, like really solid and danceable – it’s hard to show people that you’re playing live and not DJing. There are all these factors that affect it, so I prefer smaller gigs where it’s a bit more intimate, where people can see me and I’m at a similar level. I don’t like being on a big stage above people.
“Quitters Raga” is one of your most popular tracks. Did you have any idea that it was going to be so big? And did you produce it any differently from the others?
I solely used a laptop to make that track, which I never did before and haven’t done since, and so it’s made in a certain way that it’s just impossible to play live. The only way I do that track is just playing off the laptop. I’ve kind of given up on trying to make it live. But yeah, I had no idea it was going to be on every blog ever. Actually, in terms of success, “You” from the album afterwards was a hundred times bigger for me than “Quitter’s Raga,” which is lucky because I don’t own the sample in “Quitter’s Raga.” That’s why it’s kind of an underground thing. I never want to do the same track twice – I’ve never made a similar track and I don’t think I ever will. There are elements of it I actually do want to repeat, but I don’t want to do the same track again.
You’ve got new album “Half of Where you Live” coming out, when can we expect that?
I think it’s 5 June in Japan and 10 June in England. It’s being announced on 15 April with a lead track called Brazil. There’s another album I’m releasing here which is a collection of tracks “In Sequence” which basically all came out in America and the UK, but it’s hard to get in Japan because it’s vinyl, so we compiled it and released it here on CD, because they’re keen on CDs here.
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Do you have any message of advice for upcoming producers and DJs?
Yes. Spend time perfecting what you’re doing before you go out and start doing it. Definitely! And think about what you’re doing, think about the music you’re making in terms of whether that’s the music you really want to do or if it’s just the music that’s popular at the moment. I think a lot of people make the mistake of putting their foot in something that they’re not really that much into, or they won’t be into in a few years. Especially with the whole post-dubstep future garage thing, I think people are so excited that they can make music at home on a computer, they’re not sure if they’re really into it or they really want to do it.
Oh and pick a good name – not a shit one like Gold Panda! I just put an animal and a colour together, and Gold Panda was the one that stuck. It worked out though, people like it more than I do, and I can’t change it now.
MÉLANIE PAIN, known for her many vocal ventures with trendy new wave collective NOUVELLE VAGUE, is a French singer-songwriter in her own right, who now follows up her debut album “My Name” with her new “Just A Girl” EP, in anticipation of her upcoming second album “Bye Bye Manchester” due to arrive in September. The EP includes the brilliantly synthy chanson “7 ou 8 fois” which we discover is about overcoming fear of failure and not giving up, and of course the poppy “Just a Girl.”
Mélanie chose Manchester as her muse for her second album, spending 2 months in the city to gather inspiration for her writing. She has a deep affection for the city and its musical history, and has earned the respect and loyalty of many a Mancunian gig-goer.
Her live performances on this tour are backed by a drummer Julien Boyé and guitarist Guillaume Zeller. Singing in French and English works to her benefit as her husky-yet-silky vocals complement the two languages, and she demonstrates superlative showmanship skills as she gets the UK crowds engaged and wanting more at the end of her set. She has a natural allure and confidence on the stage, but there’s nothing remotely diva about her slick persona, and she’s great with the fans who she loves connecting with.
Today, we meet backstage at Leeds Brudenell Social Club. Clambering past the pool tables which have been tidied away in the Games Room to make way for her makeshift stage (she’s been bizarrely moved from the larger room, due to a certain Ms. Orton’s booking issue and sudden emergence on the night), I arrive to the sight of a mini table-tennis setup (they tour with it to relieve backstage boredom) and a footy match projected onto the wall. The atmosphere is very laid back, the band are more than accommodating, and Mélanie is utterly charming and ready to get down to brass tacks, including talk about her music, the industry and her love of Japanese food. Take it away, Mlle Pain…
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Where in France did you grow up?
I was born in the North of France and lived in Normandy for 10 years. And then I moved to the South where I spent another 10 years, then moved to Paris.
So, where is “home” for you?
Nowhere, really… but I feel France is my country. I never go back to Normandy where I was born – I have no more family there, so it doesn’t even mean anything to me. I did all my studies in Aix-en-Provence, so that’s the more active period of my life…
And you studied Political Science back then. Although you’re doing very different things now, I assume that there are some overlaps and you’re still pretty passionate about social issues?
Yeah! I’m really interested in all the communication aspects of it. Music is communication. I was really into all the semantics and all the fields of study, power of words and everything in politics. I find it really interesting in the live shows how I communicate to people. I need to be very natural, but it has to pull the audience in. It’s a bit of diplomacy – you don’t want to be too much in their face, you don’t want to be too distant, so it’s interesting.
So, your studies were useful to your career?
Yeah, for sure!
I have to ask this, as Margaret Thatcher has just passed: Nobody talks much in the UK these days about France or what France thinks of Britain, but just from your perspective and studies, what did you learn about that side of British politics and that era?
Yeah, there was a lot of stuff about what she did in the Falklands, the economic stuff. But for us, she was a bit like Reagan – they were the two characters. For us at the time, we were on the ‘right’ side of politics, but we were moving to the ‘left’ and you could really feel the change. It felt like England was stuck on the ‘right’ economic side of things.
You’ve mentioned that you’re an ‘accidental’ musician, but what’s your creative process?
It’s finding something like this (plays a drumbeat on her portable Casio synth) then adding the bass (bassline enters) – I need a beat and a bass line, and often start with a vocal melody, then try and move together the rest. I usually start with melody and lyrics, then work on the chords and the instruments, but it’s not easy for me. Musicians know which chords are going to sound good, but I’m there trying everything and “I guess this one!”
And your English is so good – where did you learn it?
I was learning English the whole time, from the time I was 12 until I finished Political Sciences, and I had lots of stuff to do in English. Also, touring with Nouvelle Vague really improved my English – I was touring a lot with them and English was the common language.
When you’re composing, do you write in both languages, or are there things you can express in one language better than in the other?
Yeah. I used to know when I’d start a song if it was going to be in English or in French. And it’s a bit weird now because it’s all kind of confused – I thought I understood why this song is in English and this song is in French but now it’s all messed up. I always thought that, for me, French is very intense, with deep meanings, very personal, and English for me is like I can groove more, I can really work on different aspects, do pop songs just about the sound of the words, backed in the rhythm.
English is like another instrument for you, I guess…
Yeah, exactly! But it’s not like this in French because it doesn’t really sound very good, so you have to really work on your lyrics, make them work with the music, and the meaning is really important for me, because it’s mine. My English is good, but I can’t say things in hundreds of ways – I have an idea, I write it down and it’s like, “Sounds good…” In French, it’s like, “Okay, I have an idea and there’s 10 ways I can express this!” I still need both languages, because even in the live shows, it’s good to go through a sad song in French and then go to a very fresh, pop English one.
Now, the inevitable question of what it’s like being a solo artist compared to being in a band – have you noticed different pressures involved?
I think Nouvelle Vague is a bit special because it’s not a band – it’s really a concept and collective, so you come and you go. There are two producers and you bring everything with you, your ideas and stuff, but it’s not really your band. They ask you how you want to do this and you say “yes” or “no” – there’s no pressure. So for me, Nouvelle Vague is really cool because I’ve got all the pleasure to go on tour and sing amazing songs and all the new wave classics, and you don’t have the pressure to think, “Why am I here?” When I do my solo stuff, it’s more like I have an ambition, I have an idea of where I want to be on stage and what I want my album to sound like. Nouvelle Vague is a really pure holiday – I go, I sing and it’s good!
And the solo stuff is more personal, right? It’s stuff you’ve worked on yourself for a long time…
Yeah, it’s my story, and I feel more in control of what I’m doing – I know exactly every choice and I know why, so it’s really more rewarding.
You have an EP coming out now and a second album later in the year – do you find that the more you write, the more your style transitions?
Well, for me, it’s really the beginning of me as a writer, as a composer – I’m really excited because I really like what I’m doing now, but I have no idea how I’m going to evolve. I am very happy with this album, it’s really a new step for me compared to the first album, and the sound is really what I want. A lot of stuff is taken directly from my demos that I did with this little keyboard, and we just added real drums and everything on top of it. But it was really about the sound – I think you can hear it tonight as well – it’s really coherent and personal. I’m a big, big fan of all these kind of ‘toy’ sounds.
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You did Manchester last night – how was that?
It was really good! It was really emotional, because it means a lot to me to begin the tour in Manchester and remember all this time I spent there, writing the songs, and now coming back, delivering the songs. I was amazed, people were very quiet – I know English crowds and I usually get myself ready to have a very noisy, drinking crowd! But the show last night was really quiet and really good fun.
So, it was quite intimate – tonight’s venue might be a bit rowdier…
Yeah, might get the drunk people tonight!
You wrote your second album in Manchester – how long were you there for?
It was like 2 months, but I went back to Paris a few times, because I have a baby boy and I was trying to get my baby and boyfriend over.
So, you spent most of your time on your own?
Yeah, I really had to have some time by myself, because I really didn’t know if I was able to write anything good. I became a singer a little bit by accident and I kind of decided that I really wanted to write my own stuff. I’m not a musician – it’s really hard for me – and when I’m in Paris, it’s impossible to have this space to just focus and work on a song for 5 days.
People often underestimate the musical impact of the late 70s and 80s in Manchester – electronics and a lot of experimentation. Now it’s kind of coming back and you’re inputting those sounds. A lot of people appreciate that because that era kind of ended too quickly. Are you feeling connected to that era, especially having spent time in Manchester?
I can really imagine the first synthesizer, or like when Depeche Mode got their first one, when Martin Gore was just discovering a new synth with all these sounds and all the possibility. It’s amazing, and it’s really about sound – it’s not about the way you play it. It’s not like a guitar, it’s really about the deepness of the sound or the delay, the echo, the reverb and the texture. And yeah, I feel connected because I think, on my little small level, I was really interested to just discover that and create from this and not just from the amazing playing of a guitar.
Talking about overseas travel, you toured in Asia with Nouvelle Vague – and you went to Japan?
I went to Tokyo, yeah!
What do you remember about it?
I remember I just wanted to go back! The food was so good! I remember the kind of craziness in the streets. I felt like everyone was going somewhere with a very specific purpose. It was so weird with all of those personalities – you’d cross a gothic person then someone completely different – it’s so crazy! We were really jetlagged, but I remember we were thinking, “Oh! What’s that?!” It was very different – high speed, high personality people – at least in Tokyo.
Do you remember the gig and the atmosphere at all?
Well the gig was a bit special because it was a showcase – it was not really in a proper venue.
It’s funny, because the producer (for Nouvelle Vague) called me one day and said, “Okay, I heard that you sang for your friend, and I really want you to sing on my new project.” I came to the studio for the first time, and he said, “Okay, this is the mic, here are the headphones – it’s a small project called Nouvelle Vague and it’s gonna sell a few records in Japan, because they follow this.” And it was actually the only country where Nouvelle Vague didn’t get anything! It’s weird, because he was saying, “Yeah, nobody will be interested in Europe, but maybe Japan will like it…” and he was a bit wrong about that!
Maybe it was the era? These days, there’s a bit of a trend for 80s synth music over there. And you know what it’s like in Japan, when they get into something, they go completely crazy for it, so things could be different now…
I hope so, I hope so!
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Do you think that now is a good time for female solo artists? It seems to be in the UK at the moment, but maybe only for certain styles of music…
It’s not a good time in France – in France, it’s a good time for male artists at the moment! Because for maybe 10 years in France, there have been so many female singers getting really big. But, it’s good in England?
Yeah, there are lots of female solo artists coming up, doing mostly singer-songwriter pop or folk – it’s a lot blander than say in the 80s, but at least they’re visible to an extent. We’re in a period where female artists are embraced but only in certain ‘safe’ areas. Being a female artist, did you notice any difference in how you were treated over the years?
I didn’t really see a difference, but I was always very lucky, because Nouvelle Vague was kind of a collective of lots of female singers, and people were coming to the shows who could really identify with this – you know, lots of female singers onstage with a very feminine way of doing covers – so it was always easy for me, because people associate Nouvelle Vague with women. And I have the same kind of vibe for my solo project – it’s very feminine, and I try to be very natural and spontaneous and not really try and invent anything.
So what’s going on in France that women are not coming up as solo artists?
I think it’s just a media issue. There were so many new female singers over the last 10 years – like a lot – and they only had one name, like ‘Camille.’ And you’ve got the media thinking, “That was the new generation of girls, and it’s over now – now it’s the new generation of male singers.” It’s really interesting – I had a talk with a radio plugger and he was like, “It’s a bad time for you…”
I suppose in a way your connection to the UK is a good thing – you’ve benefited from moving around…
Well, the great thing with Nouvelle Vague is that I have access to a lot of markets – my album is already out in Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Germany… Not so many French artists who are indie, like me, and small, get access to all of those countries.
Do you feel that you’ve learned a lot through your experience with Nouvelle Vague about how the industry works and the networks?
Yes, it’s about the networks. It’s a lot of touring, so I meet all these people with Nouvelle Vague, and they remember me – I’ll see them a few times and they say, “Okay, I want to sign your solo stuff because I like it!”
And they trust you because they already know you…
And I trust them, so it’s really easy. But really today, the industry is… (laughs) it’s really ‘despair’ – the big labels, everyone doesn’t know what to do…
This is globally speaking?
Yeah, I’m talking about the music industry. I think a lot of big labels with big money have completely lost it – they don’t have a clue what’s going to happen and how they’re going to work it out. I see stories of them spending so much on studios and stuff, and old fashioned kind of media – they don’t do anything on the web and I find it completely crazy.
There’s a big resistance by the established labels…
They don’t know what to do! I feel like I see them, and I talk to them and they’re just completely stuck – they’re paralysed, they’re scared of losing the power, the money and everything.
And yet, from what I hear, the big labels are losing their money, their control over the artists…
Of course! And I think they’re so scared of losing money that they just don’t do anything, They’re like, “Fuck! Fuck, fuck, fuck…” And you’ve got all these small labels that are fighting and they don’t have any money, but they have ideas – I’ll have a meeting with them and they say, “Yeah, I’ve really listened to that and it makes me feel like this.”
So, at least the independents are paying attention to what artists can do. Do you feel like independent labels are the way to go?
Well, for me it’s the way to go, anyway – I’m not a commercial project, I feel like I’m really more indie, so an indie label is perfect. I’m so glad I’ve signed with Fierce Panda in England – really glad. And I signed with the same kind of label in Germany and in France as well, and it’s really good – it’s people I like to talk to, and step by step it’s hard, but I’m here, in Leeds, and I have a new album coming out, so it’s good!
A lot of artists I’ve talked to recently say the same thing – they feel more comfortable with a small team, because you can talk to them about any issues, and you don’t feel isolated. But, as a solo singer, is there ever a moment where you feel on your own, like you wish you had that collective to turn to? How do you handle that?
I really have these feelings a lot… but at the same time, it’s really good to be by yourself and just find the resources. Like, okay it’s hard, but you’re just going to do it because you have to do it – no-one can do it better than you, anyway! This feeling is good and makes you really go forward.
And you chose to have a long period away from your family at one point. Not a lot of artists spend time alone these days – it requires a real commitment and understanding of what you want to achieve, a certain bravery…
Well, I made some hard choices, like I really had a really good job, having a lot more money than I do now. Before I became a singer, I had a job in Paris – I’d probably be richer now. I did the first show with Nouvelle Vague and felt so much on stage like, “Oh my god, I’m here! It’s here, it’s now! It’s like nothing else matters now…” so I made the choice to just quit my job and go for the risk and an adventure. And I do it now as well – I’m investing a lot on all those tours and my family and everything.
But I’m very lucky because my partner is also a musician, so he understands and really helps me. I go, and when I come back he’s going on tour for 3 weeks, so it’s really balanced. But I think it’s really hard when you don’t have a partner who can really help you do that. He really pushes me like, “Yes, go to Manchester!” and he doesn’t make me feel guilty – he’ll say, “Yes, this is great!”
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I’m impressed with your positive approach – it would be so easy in between your work with Nouvelle Vague to take breaks, but you’re actually making concrete time to do your solo work. What keeps you going? And do you ever have moments of doubt?
Well, I don’t really have those moments. I really know that I’m here because that’s what I love to do – write songs and then go on tour with those songs. It’s really what I want to do – play all those songs live and share them with people. And every gig is different, every city is different… I’ve got this really big chance with Nouvelle Vague – one minute I’m in Bali to play an amazing show in an amazing resort, where we go for one week to have a holiday and do a show, but then we go on tour in Eastern Europe in a really crappy tour bus. It really makes me feel like it’s always surprising and always challenging for me: “Okay, yes this is very easy, great!” then “Okay, this is very hard, good.” Life is a challenge and it’s interesting.
What advice would you give to people who are in the same position as you were when you made that leap to leave your job and go on tour?
I think you really have to try. And my new album “Bye Bye Manchester” is all about this – all the songs on there are about this feeling that you’re going to try something six, seven or eight times, you’re about to change, about to leave, about to do it, but one day you do it and that’s the important moment. Even if you never change anything in your life, you have to keep trying. And what I learned is to be very patient, and wait for the right moment and the decision will be made for you. You just have to feel it, and it’s going to come when it’s time.
2012 Juno award nominee and Polaris Music Prize shortlister LINDI ORTEGA is back in Manchester to promote her new album “Cigarettes & Truckstops” and to warm our winter hearts.
In the cosy climes of the Soup Kitchen café, I meet with Lindi and her guitarist Tom Juhas as they take a short break from their hectic tour schedule to enjoy some food and much-needed R&R. Apologizing on behalf of Manchester for the chilly weather, the duo wave away the apology with “This is nothing!” compared with Toronto temperatures.
Signed to independent label Last Gang Records, Lindi Ortega is in an exciting period of her career. Shortly after making the move to country music heaven and haven Nashville, Tennessee, to absorb herself in the history and culture of the unique musical universe, she impressively earned herself an appearance in ABC’s hit TV show NASHVILLE. In person, she’s a positively interesting mix of Toronto edge and Nashville smoothness, while demonstrating a sharp awareness of her industry and the various mechanisms and niches that exist within. A fantastic example of bravery in pushing boundaries in her own career, she’s an inspiring figure with a great story to tell. All aboard the Ortega train! It’s full steam ahead…
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Growing up, did you always know that country music was what you wanted to play?
Yeah, it was kind of a path that I followed because I was drawn to all things “Southern” and country & western. I loved cowboys and I loved western movies – one of my favourite movies growing up was “Gone with the Wind.” I think it came from my mum, because when I was growing up she had a big crush on Kris Kristofferson, and I remember watching Dolly Parton’s TV show with her – Dolly Parton had a variety show where she’d host different artists. So, that seed was planted in my mind and it just grew… the older I got the more drawn to the genre I was.
A lot of it had to do with the lyrical content which I found resonated with me – I found outlaw country so interesting, with people writing about murder ballads and things you just don’t hear much of. Maybe it’s starting to come back again, but just when I was growing up and making music, you didn’t hear murder ballads on the radio – people weren’t talking about that kind of stuff, and if they were it was Eminem and he was getting lambasted in the press…
The irony of the fact is that country music can get away with that kind of commentary, whereas the pop industry has had to clean itself up…
Yeah, isn’t that strange? It’s so weird that it’s happened like that…
So, how did this inspire your own lyrics?
I thought that taking on that fictitious world – that dark underground world – was really interesting. I remember listening to Delia’s Gone and Folsom Prison Blues by Johnny Cash and just being completely blown away by the lyrics and what he was writing about, and I thought it would be so cool to write murder ballads from a female perspective, because I didn’t know a whole lot of people who were doing that at the time.
People are often quite surprised by your lyrics – they’re quite ironic and you don’t hold back when you want to comment on something or tell a story…
Yeah, I kind of do a strange thing where I do have songs that are outright dark, but I also have songs that are tongue in cheek and taking the rip out of clichés. What’s really funny is when people look at and review literally those ones I’ve actually written as ridiculous fun songs – I just want to write to them and say, “This totally went over your head!” But people will take what they take out of it.
So, you moved to Nashville in 2011 – I get the impression that you don’t hold back when it comes to your love for music…
No, music’s always been the one thing that’s pushed me in directions I probably never would have gone, had music not existed in my life. So, yeah I took that plunge – leaving my country to go to a new country, a new city, not knowing anybody. But my reason for going to Nashville is because it’s the country music Mecca – there’s so much history there. It wasn’t enough for me to just read about the history – I wanted to be there to absorb the history. I was reading a lot of biographies at the time: Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, Patsy Cline… and all of them had passed through Nashville at some point, because that was the place to go, the place to “make it.”
And how do you feel the country scene has evolved since those days?
Country music is a lot different now than it was back then. It’s just a different world – I would say it’s more “pop” than anything else, and it’s very driven by the formulaic machine that’s happening.
The stuff that I do, which is really drawn from the old-timey country and outlaw country, isn’t even regarded as “country” any more – it’s regarded as “alternative country” even though it stems from the roots of the genre. I don’t know when that switch happened, but I know that there are a lot of artists out there who are underground because they just don’t have the chance to get on the same platform as Taylor Swift or Carrie Underwood or that kind of big pop star, but they’re there, they exist, and they’re making incredible music which has great vintage style and still pays tribute but has a little bit of a modern edge to it. Some of them are recording analogue, some are doing live off the floor, paying tribute to those old Sun Studios type recordings. It’s just nice to see that that is not completely dead, that it’s not a dying art, but it just doesn’t have the same platform as the big time. And I’m hoping that that will change, just the way Mumford & Sons has brought roots music to the forefront and it seems to have more of a level playing field these days – hopefully it’ll happen the same way in country music.
So, you like to keep some healthy distance from the more commercial aspects of the country music scene?
I don’t deal at all with the “machine” of Nashville and that whole Music Row turning-out-of-hits – I’m not part of that scene at all. It’s not really the kind of music I’m interested in making, I’m not interested in listening to it, and I have no desire to be affiliated with it at all. Sure, I might make a few extra dollars if I decided to go that way, but music has never been about money for me, ever. I don’t think I could be doing it this long, waiting for my million dollar cheque to arrive in the mail. It’s a labour of love and I’ve always done it for those reasons – I’ve always written from the heart and followed what feels natural for me. And luckily my label allows me to do that. It wasn’t about “making it” in Nashville – it was about learning the history and it was about inspiration, and it still is that for me. I find it very inspiring and it’s nice to be where the history is.
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Nashville has a very rich culture, but has quite a different energy from other big entertainment cities like LA, New York…
Yeah, and it’s quite a different pace of life for me in Nashville versus Toronto, because Toronto is like a concrete jungle – there are buildings everywhere, there’s a lot of hustle bustle, there’s a lot going on all the time… Whereas Nashville is a big city but it’s laid back, it has a small town feel, you can stroll along the streets, and it’s nice to come back from a hectic tour to hang out there. The food’s great and there’s a lot of great music, and if you’re interested in finding blues, honkytonk or bluegrass, there’s so much of that happening all the time – the talent is mind-blowing. For example, there are a bunch of 70 year old guys who are amazing finger pickers, and it’s really, really humbling to be able to stumble into that. So I think it’s a good place for me to be now and to learn.
Toronto is another one of those places with a great music scene – but I guess not necessarily your music scene…
Yeah, not my music scene… There is a music scene there – indie-rock does really well and singer-songwritery stuff does alright, but for me there was just no place to go. There was like one venue that catered to the kind of music that I did, but you can only play that same venue so many times, and it’s a small industry – it’s a big country with a small industry, and once you’ve sort of met everybody and shook everyone’s hand it’s like, “Where do I go from here? I could stay here and make myself a big name in Toronto if I want to, keep pushing and pounding the pavements in Toronto…” But I felt like that wasn’t enough for me, I needed to go to the places that inspire me – the South. I love Wyoming, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Tennessee of course where I moved to – those places all call to me, and I can’t really explain what it is about them, but when I’m there I feel like, “This is where I’m meant to be.”
Let’s talk about your appearance in hit TV show “NASHVILLE.” I’d say it’s a pretty important show for the music industry. It’s so good at showing how rich that music scene is, the real struggles faced by artists in different areas of the industry, and of course we get to see some of the more disturbing business elements…
Yeah, I mean all of this is based on a degree of truth of what goes on in the industry. The show is about two duelling pop diva country artists, but then there is also this subplot of indie musicians who try to make it, so it really does try to encompass the whole way it works, which is really interesting. It was really great to be part of it, because I had just moved to the city when I got to be in the show. And it was very cool to watch the first few episodes, not only to hear my songs on it (“The Day You Die,” “Little Lie” and “Murder of Crows”), but to see the places that I’ve grown to love, all the little venues that they show: The Bluebird Café, The 5 Spot…
So these are genuine locations?
Yeah, genuine locations!
That’s really exciting for people watching the show from outside Nashville – they’re really seeing that world as it is…
Yeah, the opening scenes for the credits that roll in, that’s the scene I see whenever I fly into Nashville, or when you’re driving in from a long tour – I’ve grown to feel an affection for it…
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Would you say that it’s important for musicians and writers to retain a certain amount of independence in their work?
I can’t speak for everybody on that, but for me it was a very good move to side with an independent label. I’ve done the whole major label thing, and I don’t think my story is unique because I feel like a lot of people have gone through the major label and then got dropped from the major label. At that point, you can choose to duck out of business if you want, or figure out a way to survive. And I was lucky that my manager who runs Last Gang Records offered me the opportunity to put me on his label. The way he sold it to me was, “You don’t have to go through 10 middle men to talk to me – you can just pick up the phone to call me.” That’s been true since I’ve signed with him, and it’s been true ever since. He’s there, you know… and that’s important. I mean, when I was on a major label, I was a “backburner artist” but when I’m on this indie label, I’m a priority. And I would rather be a priority than to stay a backburner artist just so I can say, “Hey, I’m on this big label.”
Has that made a difference in terms of feeling comfortable and being able to focus on the music?
Yeah! You know what? I feel like it’s more of a family, and that’s kind of how I operate with most people that I work with. I mean, it is the music business, and I understand how I’m affiliated and I fit into it, and what we’re trying to do and how we’re trying to build things. But at the same time, maintaining close connections to people and working with good people and nice people who get my goals is important to me – and my goals are very modest really at the end of the day: I just want to pay my rent, continue to do what I do, and I don’t have a desire to sell out giant arenas… I’m not interested in being the next Lady Gaga. I just want to do what I’m doing – play shows and have people come and see me perform, and keep releasing music, because that’s what I love to do.
So yeah, being on an indie label is good for me, it works for me. If you’re a young band, if you’re like One Direction or something, then I’d say that a major label’s maybe the right place for you. It depends what kind of music you want to do, and it depends how much control you want to have over what you do. I like being the one the ideas come from. Everything I do musically from the aesthetics, the look, the videos, is always born of my ideas so I can stand by them with conviction, and there’s not someone telling me how to dress, how to act, how to look, how to be – I don’t think I could do that anyway…
And you’ve got some great role-models in your industry – people who aren’t familiar with country music may (wrongly) assume that women don’t have a high profile in that world, but actually Dolly Parton is such an inspiration…
Dolly Parton is one of the most respected businesswomen in country music. She used to make jokes that people would think she was a dumb blonde because she is a character – she’s buxom and blonde, but she’s also a very smart woman, who’s made tonnes of money and has been very, very successful. Yeah, I think it’s important to stick to your guns and be a strong woman, and hopefully that’s what I’m doing and that’s what comes across.
So would that be your message of advice to other artists?
Brian King (vocals/guitar) and Dave Prowse (vocals/drums) of Vancouver band JAPANDROIDS have had their fair share of ups and downs in their career, but catching up with them now in 2013, they’re riding a massive high, and what better city than Tokyo in which to talk hard work and the mysteries of success.
The dark, dungeon-like lounge area of music venue Shibuya WWW serves as the setting for the interview, the three of us seated around a tiny circular table covered with an assortment of Japanese beverages. When I arrived, the guys were filling in interview questionnaires with questions the likes of “If you could be an animal, what would you be?” so seemed more than a little relieved to start chatting with me instead. After a brief discussion about the best cities to visit in Australia, we move on to their current Asia tour.
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So first, I just want to say “Welcome to Tokyo!” – What have you been up to so far?
DAVE PROWSE: Eating and drinking mostly, walking around a lot. We flew from Seoul to Tokyo two days ago, so we’ve basically had one evening and one full day. We’re staying in a hotel in Shibuya, so we’ve been mostly hanging around in Shibuya, eating lots of delicious food, drinking shochu and sake.
And this isn’t your first time in Japan, is it?
DAVE: No, we played Fuji Rock back in July, on the same day that Radiohead played, in the Red Marquee at noon. This will be our first club show in Tokyo. Fuji Rock is a pretty different world altogether, so it’ll be fun to play a packed little club.
BRIAN KING: Fuji Rock was a really fun experience, but as Dave was saying, it was really different from playing in a club at night. When you play at noon on Sunday at a festival, everyone’s just kind of waking up and sort of hungover from the night before, and it’s outside and really hot. So it’ll be a really different experience to play tonight.
Yeah, there are a lot of people very excited to see you play tonight – There are a group of girls waiting outside by the door trying to peek in…
DAVE: Whoa, send ’em in! Just joking…
So, did you have much chance to check Japan out last time?
DAVE: We were here for four or five days, so I think we got a little taste of it. Some of that time, we were just up at the festival – you could kind of be anywhere when you’re at a music festival – but I think we had three nights in Tokyo and got to see a fair amount. For me, Japan is probably one of the most foreign and unique places I’ve ever been in my entire life. On this tour, we’ve played quite a few other parts of Asia – we played Hong Kong, Taipei, two shows in Korea, Singapore, and then also all those shows in Australia and New Zealand. But even within Asia, I feel like Japan is a really unique place, so it’s been super exciting to get to come here. We’re getting a small snippet of what it’s like, but even just in Tokyo, I think you could spend a year constantly discovering new parts of it. We’ve still only been here a few days total in the last year, so there’s a lot more to see.
You’ve just finished your Korean dates – how was that?
DAVE: It was awesome! Before this whole tour, our only venture into Asia was Fuji Rock. On this tour, we’ve played a lot of places for the first time and all the shows have gone really well, but our two shows in Korea (in Busan and Seoul) were particularly stand-out shows, where the crowds were really great both nights. It was a pretty big surprise for both of us to see how receptive everyone was there. There are a lot of expats in Korea, especially Canadians and Americans.
So, any particularly memorable shows on the tour so far?
BRIAN: Well, from the recent past, Laneway Sydney was a really good show for us. The crowd was really good, everything just kind of came together, so that really stands out in my memory from this tour as a really memorable show. There are so many factors that go into making a show good, both for the band and for the audience. No matter how much we try, it’s very rare that all of the factors align in a really positive way. There’s usually something that doesn’t go quite right, or something that you wish was different, but that show was one where I left the stage thinking pretty much everything went right that night, and it felt awesome.
DAVE: Yeah, I think that was the best show we’ve had on this tour. In terms of everything aligning, it sounded good, we played well and the crowd was great. Those are the three big things. Wherever we play, there are a fair amount of people who know about our band and are really excited to see us, and when you get that kind of a response, whether that’s 20 people or 200 or 2000, it’s just a pretty magical thing. There are highlights, and certainly Sydney was the one where everything aligned in the best way on this tour so far, but at the same time, I think every show is a really fun show. Every show we play has something memorable about it and, especially at this point, we’re not playing a lot of duds.
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How did you both get into music? And how did that lead to Japandroids?
DAVE: We met at the University of Victoria. Brian had been playing guitar for a while before that, but I hadn’t played drums. I started playing drums in University basically because I wanted to play in bands – it was a pretty conscious decision when I was about nineteen. I’d played a bunch of other instruments as a kid, but I’d never played in bands before and I figured that playing drums was my quickest route to playing in bands, because everyone always needs a drummer – there are never enough drummers to go around, it seems.
I started seeing a lot of local music in Victoria and was increasingly becoming obsessed with music in my first few years of university. Seeing local bands really inspired me to start playing in bands. It was an important moment for me to realise that being in bands and making music wasn’t something necessarily reserved for famous people and big shot bands who live in New York or Hollywood, but that it was something that normal people like me could do, and if you just worked at it and were passionate about it, you could make something worth listening to. Specifically, there was one show I saw by Dan Boeckner’s band Atlas Strategic at this place called Thursday’s in Victoria. Dan later went on to play in Wolf Parade, Handsome Furs, and Divine Fits, etc. I’d never heard his band before and just arbitrarily went. Dan’s band was the local opener for this touring band called Mice Parade who I ended up not really giving a shit about because I saw Atlas Strategic and thought they were by far the better band of the two. That show basically changed my life. Brian has a different story…
BRIAN: Yeah, I’m just trying to think… I was interested in music from when I was really young. I started listening to music and going to shows, and I learned how to play guitar when I was quite young, like elementary school – it’s just something that I always liked, but it never occurred to me that I could actually do it. I was from a small town where that was not really a reality – there were no local bands and that wasn’t something that people did. When I got to school, like Dave, I got more interested in the local music community and this idea of regular people being in bands as opposed to just “rockstars.” When we finished school, there was a group of us that had this plan to start bands together. Between us, we had about five or six bands all going in Vancouver at the same time when I first moved there. Then after a while, we were the last band standing and we just kept going – and now, it’s eight years later.
There are a lot of great Canadian bands, but it seems difficult for them to get known overseas. Do you think it’s getting easier?
DAVE: I think so. Before bands like Arcade Fire and Broken Social Scene really blew up, I think it was a bit of a dirty word to say you were a band from Canada. And there’s a very insular music scene in Canada – a lot of bands became very popular within Canada but were totally unknown even in the United States, let alone the rest of the world. Nowadays, at least in the realm of indie rock, I think a lot of people from abroad are very interested in what’s going on in Canada – maybe not Vancouver as much, but certainly Montreal and Toronto. When bands say they’re from those cities, people’s ears prick up a little bit and it makes them kind of curious about the band, in the same way that when I was younger, if I heard about a band from San Francisco or New York, I’d think, “Oh, they must be good.”
BRIAN: You know, there’s a “British” sound, but there’s no “Canadian” sound. I think that as time goes on, and more and more artists from different music genres start to become popular and it just happens that they’re from Canada, the less and less it actually matters that they’re from Canada – what matters is whether you’re good. No-one cares that Grimes is from Canada – she’s just really popular because the record’s really awesome. And, no one cares that Drake is Canadian – he’s just really popular because of the music. Drake and Crystal Castles and Fucked Up are all from Toronto and really successful, but they don’t sound anything like one another. It’s the Internet age, and where you’re from is becoming less important than whether or not you’re good.
There was a time ten years ago when if you were from Brooklyn, people would pay attention to you and what you sounded like, regardless of whether you were good or not. There was a sort of mini-version of that in Montreal in the mid-00s, because all of a sudden it seemed that there were all these bands coming out of Montreal that had a similar sound – all indie rock bands with guitar that appealed to a lot of people and had this certain sound. I feel like that’s disappeared, and now it’s opened the doors to anyone. There are all kinds of really great Canadian bands coming up and getting talked about, and they don’t sound anything like each other – if you didn’t know they were Canadian, you would never know. Dirty Beaches is playing in Tokyo tonight as well – he’s Canadian.
Yeah a few weeks ago Crystal Castles played in Tokyo, and next month Grimes will be here…
DAVE: Oh really? Canadian invasion!
BRIAN: It’s funny, because being Canadian is the one thing those bands have in common – musically, they’re all playing a totally different thing. I think it just doesn’t matter so much anymore. The fact that the population is smaller means that there will never be as many Canadian bands as there are American or European bands, but I think it’s about the same thing – if it’s good, then it’s good and it’s gonna happen.
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So, tell me about the band name – did you plan to have this connection to Japan?
DAVE: Not really, it was just something that I thought sounded cool. We certainly didn’t have any aspirations to play in Japan at that time. We were just trying to play shows in Vancouver, maybe tour a bit in Canada, maybe in the US. I don’t think either of us had any idea of how far we’d end up going with this band, so to a large extent the band name was more a formality just so we could start playing shows in Vancouver, so we had something to write on the posters.
You’re now touring the world, but how did you manage in the early stages with the ups and downs of getting the band established?
DAVE: We were both pretty frustrated. I think in retrospect we probably both feel as though we should have left Vancouver earlier, and it probably would have been easier to have achieved some success with our band if we didn’t live in Vancouver – it’s pretty isolated. I think that’s changed to some extent as time’s gone on – people are looking to Vancouver a bit more as a place where bands come from – but certainly when we were starting, it wasn’t really a place where bands existed. We did everything ourselves for a long time and we were achieving some degree of success, but we were definitely pretty frustrated with what felt like a lack of progress. And it led to the band basically breaking up before anything really happened for us. The big reason that we decided to stick around later was that, after we decided it didn’t seem like the band was going anywhere, people started pretty arbitrarily picking up on our band just because of one show in one place at one time – and that was a little spark that started this whole buzz.
Which show was that?
DAVE: It was a tiny show at a place called Friendship Cove in Montreal, at a festival called Pop Montreal, which is kind of like a SXSW-type deal – multi-venue, all in the same city, lots of different small shows. We played at this art space called Friendship Cove to like nobody, but it turned out that one person who was there was a guy named Greg Ipp who’s now a good friend of ours and who used to run a record label called Unfamiliar Records – that’s the label that first put out our 2009 album Post-Nothing (This debut LP was subsequently re-released by Polyvinyl Record Co.). A guy named Stu Berman who writes for magazines also saw us there and really liked our show, so he started writing about us in Toronto. He was kind of the person who got our record to Pitchfork. So those two things pretty gigantic things happened at the same show and changed the fate of our band.
BRIAN: It was like the perfect storm of things. I mean, famous magazines see bands play all the time, so it’s not only that. It’s like a perfect combination of all the events coming together, because it’s also a lot of hard work, a lot of determination and resilience – all those clichéd things but it’s totally true. And then it’s also a bit of luck on top of all that. It was just this perfect combination of us being in the right place at the right time, playing the way we did with the songs we had at the time, with the right people, and everything just kept unfolding from there. I mean, I like to think that the reason people wrote about us in those early days is because the songs were good and we performed them really well, like they didn’t have much of a choice but to write about us. It could have been totally different – we could have just played kind of shitty that night and them be like, “Meh, these guys suck,” so having them in the same room wouldn’t have meant anything. It’s a really hard thing to explain how other bands could do it or how it even happened to us, because you can’t plan it, or we would have planned it a lot sooner. It just sort of happened accidentally.
DAVE: Yeah, and like I said, hardly anybody was there, so it would have been very easy to just be like, “Well, this is gonna suck, let’s get this over with and get the fuck out of here.” It was basically just bands, a few other friends of friends and then those guys. Luckily for us, we play every show like it’s our last, whether it’s ten people, a hundred people, or a thousand people there. We took it very seriously, even though there was nobody there.
One of your most popular tracks is The House That Heaven Built” and it’s also the only one to have an official music video. Where and when was that shot, and can we expect more?
BRIAN: It was shot over the course of a week. Someone came on tour with us for a week on the East Coast of the States and Canada, so it’s kind of… six shows? – Toronto, Montreal, Boston, two shows in New York, and Washington DC.
DAVE: I think that was the only kind of music video we would make. It took us a long time to bother making a music video. The reason we did that one was that it felt a bit more genuine. There was some trepidation in doing it, but I’m glad we did it, just so we have that document of a very specific time for our band.
BRIAN: I think we never fully understood how much people who like the band would like the music video, and the people who like our band really liked it – they like to have that visual association with the band. And so, after seeing the reception to the video, it kind of changed our minds a little bit about the idea of using music videos as a whole – not that I want to run off and start making crazy music videos tomorrow, but more just the idea that we managed to find a way to do it where we were happy with it and our audience was really happy with it. I think it would be a cool thing to keep doing, if you could find ways to keep doing work you and your audience are happy with. Now that I’ve seen it and I’ve seen the reaction to it, it makes me lament being so staunchly against doing it for so long.
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Finally, with all these new experiences, what words of advice would you now give to upcoming musicians?
BRIAN: It’s a hard question to answer actually, because on the one hand I feel like I have nothing to say, and on the other hand I feel like I have a million things to say. I mean, probably just the old classic clichéd thing of lots of hard work… When you tour a lot and you meet other bands that have found some kind of success, like say you play Laneway where you’re travelling with all these other bands and all of these bands have more or less achieved the same thing you did – they’ve all made it to a point that they’re on Laneway for example, they all have records out and have record labels, people know who they are and they’ve found some kind of success (some more than others, but still to the point that they get invited to play a travelling festival) – one thing you can guarantee is that everyone works really hard to get to where they are, and very few people fall into it accidentally. Most people have all worked really hard for a really long time to get to where they are.
Watching other bands perform at that festival, I was thinking that what all these different people – no matter what kind of music they play or what their differences are – have in common is that it’s taken a lot for them to get there, and by no means was any of it easy. We played with people that are like us, who have been doing it for a long time, some much longer than us, and it took lots of hard work, lots of grinding, typically more than one album, typically lots of touring. You get to know some of these bands and you’re like, “Wow, I realise that before you played in this band, you played in three other bands, you’ve been making music for 12 or 13 years and that’s how long it took you to get here.” Other bands have been working at it for ten plus years but are only now beginning to have some kind of recognition, but they stuck with it because they wanted it that badly. They kept on doing it, and when they hit a hurdle, instead of letting it stop them, they just found a way to overcome it.
The longer you do this, the more you realise that that’s the one thing almost everyone – nine out of ten people – has in common. It’s the long history of lots and lots of hard work, dedication and resilience. I think that’s the best advice you can give – that if you really love it and you really believe in it, you just have to work hard and keep doing it no matter what, and eventually you’ll get somewhere. Maybe you won’t become the biggest band in the world, but you’ll get somewhere.
Leeds band Officers aren’t your average guitar and synths group. They have a big swirling sound that verges on the symphonic, and would be right at home behind an edgy indie movie. The band is also fiercely independent, releasing their music through their own Original Wall of Death label, with all the packaging designed, often in limited editions, by Stuart Semple. Music icon Gary Numan was so impressed with their music that he has had the band touring with him as the opening act, as well as recording with the band. We caught up the main forces behind the band, Jamie Baker (guitar) and Matt Southall (vocals and keyboard), before their show at London’s famed Forum in Kentish Town.
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How did you guys meet?
Matt: It’s quite strange because I lived across the road from Jamie, but we didn’t speak for about six months. We just used to glare at each other from across the street. One day my car broke down outside the house, and Jamie just strutted past with a smirk on his face and I remember thinking, “All right. Cheers. Thanks for your help.” A couple of months later we happened to speak through a mutual friend in the pub, and I asked Jamie to join my band, without even hearing him play, cos we got on so well. It kind of went from there.
Jamie: It was odd, because at first you asked me if I could sing.
Matt: Because I didn’t want to sing.
Jamie: We were talking about this the other day and Matt said we’ve been using the term singer by proxy, but it wasn’t really. In my eyes, from meeting, I could always see the potential that was there, not just via a voice, because you started putting stuff down on demos, but the attitude and the way a front man should look, which is something I’d never really had being in previous bands before. You used to see your favourite bands and think there was a brilliant front man, or he looks the part, and not only that he could sing. But often it was one or the other; they were either a really good singer, or they looked good but were shit.
Matt: And I can’t do either.
Jamie: But he’s always been like that, with that self-deprecating attitude, which is quite nice really, but I could always see the potential, but it was hard to push him to do it, at first.
Matt: It was weird because one minute I was singing on demos, then three months later we were playing for Alan McGee’s club night, with him watching us, then a month after that we played to 6000 people at the Coronet in London. Then I thought to myself, I’m actually a singer now, which was quite strange.
So, did the band take off quite quickly? Or was it a ten-year overnight success?
Matt: Early on we got a lot of attention from working with Jagz Kooner, whose just remixed a track we’ve done with Gary Numan. He was a big hero of mine when he was in Sabres of Paradise. Jamie struck up that relationship with him, so he was a big supporter of us, which obviously gained us a lot of interest, both industry wise and from his peers, such as Eddy Temple-Morris and loads of other people. So early on we had a lot of heat on us.
Jamie: We removed ourselves from that situation because, like Matt said, it happened so quickly. When we first started, we started putting demos together, which was around the MySpace boom, and we messaged Alan McGee on MySpace and said, “Listen to these tunes” and he said to come and play his club night. At that time we hadn’t even got a live set together, let alone a band, or even ever hired a van to travel to London to play a gig. We’d never really done it, we’d just done stuff locally. All of a sudden we had something to deliver, but we hadn’t even time to write anything that we thought was of worth, really. So we had to remove ourselves, and a lot of people said, “What the hell are you doing? Why aren’t you doing this? Why aren’t you doing that?” We could have taken a very different path, but if we had we wouldn’t be writing the quality of material that we are now, because we wouldn’t still be around because it would have been a flash in the pan kind of thing, which we never wanted to do. We wanted to build it slowly and foster those kind of relationships and…
Matt: …work with people that we care about, who respect us and who we respect back, rather than someone who is looking at the clock and being paid by the hour.
Jamie: We’re not doing it because a PR company said, “This’ll be a good hook up for you guys to do.” Or a record company that’s got another act on the label and thinks they’ll put these two bands on tour because they’ll sell more albums for our label. It’s never been about that. It takes longer when you do everything yourself, which is what we do. We put everything out through our own label. Matt produces everything. I look after the social networking, the visual and management side of things. We cross over at the point where it needs it, and finish each other’s jobs off. We’ve each got our thing that we do, but we can’t do it without each other.
Matt: It’s a real good relationship. I’m really lucky creatively in that I can pretty much say, “There” and Jamie will accept it and put a guitar part on, and that’s the song. It works quite well because we’ve both been in bands before. Since bands started they’ve always had the issues of creative problems, but Jamie’s good with the visual side of things, and it’s great that he gets involved with that with his friend Stuart Semple, who we’ve done the artwork collaboration with, and we’re going to continue to work with. It’s a really healthy way of working, and it creates a great product at the end of it because it’s all made completely in-house by myself, with Jamie and Stuart doing the artwork. We’ve got Tim and Dave Bascombe to mix the records, because it was a bit out of my depth at that point, in delivering a really good mix.
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Your sound is very rich so it’s going to need a lot of work for it to come out how you want it to.
Matt: It’s very symphonic, in terms of lots of layers and loops, and very precise in terms of how things work with each other. If one’s out, the other might sound a bit odd. I’m sometimes guilty of overloading parts, where Tim and Dave made those parts sit in more than I could do – “You don’t need that in there, it’ll sound better if it comes in there.” That’s great and it’s real healthy, and those guys were fantastic and they did it for… compared to the fees that they usually get, it was ridiculous, and they did it out of love for the music, which was great.
Technology has come to a point where it is much easier for people to do it for themselves.
Matt: It does, but I think that with technology being so cheap, it has created a lot of bad music.
Not only bad music, but also bad movies, bad design…
Matt: Everyone thinks they can buy a Mac and Logic, and they’re a producer. Sometimes it’s not the case. However, 15 years ago, our band wouldn’t have been able to exist the way we do things. On the live sets it would be very different. We’d probably have to have ten people doing the job our synth player does with some sequencers, plus what I play live on the keyboard, and certainly the guitar chains that Jamie has, it’s about 16-17 effects. It’s quite intense.
Jamie: It’s quite in-depth now. We spent a lot of time on it. Being the kind of geeks that we are, sitting in our room.
Your music is very cinematic. Would you like to get into film scoring?
Jamie: Last night we were talking about something I’m trying to put the feelers out for at the moment, doing music for an animation is something we’ve both wanted to do for quite a while, and scoring for soundtracks, we’d definitely love to move into that kind of world. We find it quite easy to do that kind of thing. I don’t mean it arrogantly, it’s just that if you enjoy doing it, you get lost in it. Because of the way we write, the way Matt writes and I come up with the parts, it is always inspired by visual references, which is why we have such a strong relationship with Stuart, so I think it would transcend very well on to film soundtracks, animation and a lot of the stuff we have online that I’ve put together via our favourite movies, footage and art projects. I’ve got in touch with people online and said, “Do you mind if I use this footage to put together a video for ourselves?” Editing in that way gives a different element to what we create. It’s definitely something we’d like to get into.
Matt: When I first started I had an Akai S20 sampler, a Tascam tape machine and a Korg Electribe. That’s how I started off making electronic music, because I used to be a drummer. Because I had a bad hand, I had to stop playing the drums so I had to find something that I loved. Bladerunner was always a film I’d loved, and that’s how I got into it, starting off scoring very simple symphonic pieces, and that’s been a big influence on the sound of the band. I can’t play any instrument well, only to a standard that is suitable for a recording, but enough to write a tune with. That’s how the sound of the band evolved, in that it was very loopy because that’s how I worked. I’d play something once on my guitar and loop it, rather than having to try and play it. It’s actually worked out very well, and back from all those years ago that’s how the sound evolved.
Jamie: It was definitely a really good learning curve for me as well because I’d come from the background of, you learn to play the guitar and there’s all this theory that goes with it. All these virtuoso guitarists, but if you weren’t as good as them then you weren’t a guitarist, whereas the way we started to write, it was impossible for me to play like that. I had to learn to play in a completely different way, which again was using all the techniques, which I’d been told was the wrong way of doing things – making the guitar sound like a synth. That was really good for me, it improved me because I was doing something that I shouldn’t have been doing, and that’s formed the way we do things now.
How did you end up touring with Gary Numan?
Jamie: Eddy Temple-Morris, the XFM DJ and a long-time supporter of ours, invited us to co-host one of his shows. We were having a bit of a sound clash; he’d hit us with a tune and we’d have to hit him back with one. Matt dropped Melt, the Ade Fenton remix, and Eddy said, “Wow. Gary Numan. I haven’t heard that track for ages. I think he’d really love your album.” So I said, make sure you get it to Gary. Within five minutes, a few people online had started Tweeting about it with the hashtag #getittogary. So a bit of a campaign started, and Eddy did put it across, and Gary came back and quite liked it. Actually he corrected me the other day and told me off. He said, “I didn’t say I liked it, I said I absolutely loved it and it was the best album I’d heard all year.” He said the other night that the track we recently wrote with him, he told us it was his favourite song ever, or one of his favourite songs ever, which is crazy. That’s how the relationship started. He invited us along on tour, which has been great for us. It’s been brilliant. Not just because the shows have been great, but the atmosphere between band and crew is a really nice family atmosphere. It’s going to be really sad when it finishes.
Those guys have been around for ages, so they’ve nothing to prove and don’t need to really come over with attitude.
Matt: True. And Gary’s an absolutely lovely man, and his wife Gemma is absolutely amazing. She makes us feel so welcome and at ease. She comes to all the shows. She’s always Tweeting about how much she’s looking forward to seeing us. It’s been great.
Jamie: It has been odd, in a good way, because, like you say, they’ve nothing to prove, there isn’t that kind of competition element you get with some bands. You speak to some band members with other acts you’re touring with, and they’ll say, “Caught your set”, and you’ll know they didn’t because they’ve been in the dressing room all night. The venues we’ve been playing, Gary and the band’s been coming out onto the balconies, and you look up and see them all getting into it. They genuinely want you to do well, which is a lovely thing to have because you don’t get it often in this industry. Gary’s put his neck out quite a bit. He could have had anyone from any record label who could have paid him any money to promote them to his audience, but it was genuinely for the love of it, and mutual respect. In the industry climate that we’re in, it takes some balls to do that.
Matt: It sums up his ethos, which is very similar to ours in terms of being an independent record company and being self-sufficient. He really likes that in us. He’s Gary Numan, he’s untouchable. He’s an amazing man and we’re at the very start of our career and he obviously wants to help us and steer us along the right path.
Do you like touring?
Matt: Love this tour.
Jamie: Because we look at in a completely different way from when we first started out, it’s been an absolute blast, and it’s going to be quite sad to see it finish. It’s been work, but it’s been enjoyable work. We could have ruined it for ourselves if we’d gone out and hammered it every night.
But that’s part of being professional.
Matt: Five years ago I’d drink a litre of vodka before going on stage. Now I don’t have any.
Jamie: The difference is people come up to you at the end of the show and say how great it was, and you remember how great it was the next day.
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Everything seems to be going great for you at the moment. Do you feel lucky to be where you are?
Jamie: We do feel lucky, because we know luck is in it, but part of me feels like we deserve it as well because we know how much work we’ve put into it. Everyone that’s doing it is because it is part of a relationship that we’ve got with these people. There’s a lot of emotional attachment to what we do. We’re not just some kids writing tunes that we want to put out and sell, it’s more than that to us. We do feel lucky, but at the same time, we’ve created it all ourselves, and we’ve worked damn hard to do it. We’re comfortable where we are, and we’d like it to grow even more.
In this web-obsessed world, there is surprisingly little to be found about you except your own pages on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, Soundcloud, MySpace etc.
Jamie: That was always intentional. There’s so many bands out there and it’s oversaturated with, “We’re the greatest band in the world”…
Matt: To us it was, let’s direct our fans and a few likeminded people to a few places where they can see us.
Jamie: It’s there, and there’s something there for you if you want it.
Do you rely mostly on word of mouth?
Matt: This is the first time we’ve toured this record. The record was finished 18 months ago, and it’s taken us this long to get everything together. Something always comes from something, so we’re looking to take it as far as we can, but we wanted to keep things very simple for people, although they will always find thousands of articles on officers, of an army orientation, rather than the band. The profiles growing, so that’s great.
Jamie: It will grow, and it is one of those things where, because we’re self sufficient and we are just starting, we made a decision quite a while ago that we don’t need to chase a label. I think, when you’re younger and you’re inexperienced and a bit naive, from all the stories you read you think the way to become successful is to get a record deal, get an advance, become rich and that’s it. That’s not the way any more.
They’ve clearly been reading the wrong stories because if you do that you’ll be paying the record company for the rest of your life.
Jamie: When you’re younger, and you see these idols and you don’t even know what it’s like. As soon as we made the decision that it wasn’t about making the money, that’s not the end game. If we do, that would be absolutely brilliant. But if we can sustain ourselves making a living doing what we love doing. What we’re doing now, no one can ever take that away. We own it, and everything we make we put back into it to sustain what we think’s worthwhile and what people like. We can do that forever. We don’t need a record company to give us 150 grand to do it. We can do the record on a couple of grand. I don’t know if you’ve seen the stuff we did with the book sets with Stuart Semple. They’re a fantastic product, aesthetically pleasing and interactive. The person that buys it gets a really great insight into the creative process. You’re not going to get that from buying an album from HMV or downloading it, so we’ll always be doing that kind of thing.
You do need to do that now, so that people get a package that is something unique. The whole art of sleeve design has almost disappeared, but it can still be done in interesting ways, even with CDs.
Jamie: That’s one of the things we wanted to do with Petals, the track we’ve done with Gary. We could have quite easily put it out as a download, we wouldn’t have had to pay anything to do that, there would have been no overheads, and we know everyone would have downloaded it on this tour. But we didn’t. We restricted it to one hundred really special, limited edition copies. One track on three CDs, with information on how you can donate to a really important charity called CALM. We knew we could get press to raise awareness for this charity, and we knew that’s what it was for. Gary’s fans and our fans now have this really limited, special thing. There’s only a hundred copies in the world, there won’t ever be a repressing of that package. That’s something that’s really nice, and if I was a collector that is something I would love to have. We made it, we did it all and it’s there and they get a bit of the work we put in, for being a fan.
Do younger people coming into the industry need to look at why and how they are doing it?
Matt: There’s still an old school going around, and there’s a new school of people who are working in the industry, and the old school is panicking and struggling to catch up with all these new ways of doing things. As a young man, like Jamie was saying, we’ve both had record deals in the past that have gone belly up almost instantly. Having wasted six months of your life waiting for something to happen, there should be a lot more awareness that it’s not about that. You need to keep the band unit strong. The main thing is to get a core unit together. Know how it works. You need to know what to expect as well. Our management, Angus, has been great with us over the years; helping us, working with us, educating us and arguing with us about how to do it, or how not to do it. It’s a very volatile industry and it does ruin people’s lives because they get a taste of success or something, and spend the rest of their lives wishing, whatever. I think that if you do it all yourself it’s more organic and you can do what you want. It just depends at what scale you want to do it and what you’re trying to achieve.
Jamie: You’ve got to manage your expectations. If you think that because you’re in a band that you’re going to live that dream, get signed and make loads of money, you need to check in with yourself, and realise that happens to very, very few people. Even though the Internet has been great at giving people the tools to do things themselves, there’s so many more people doing it now, so the chances are even less. As a result of that there is even less money in the industry so there are less chances of being picked up. I remember when we first started, we were offered record deals and went to record company offices; Warner Brothers, Parlophone that have offices full of people, press departments, marketing departments. Now there are four or five people working in these companies. So you can see that everyone has had to scale it back, but like Matt said, you have to have a specific goal. There’s a lot of people out there that will help and give you advice, and help you get there…
Matt: You just need to build those relationships, with respect, and making a good product, and having a clear vision of what you are trying to achieve. If those people feel the same they’re going to help you because they’ll want to be part of it with you.
Jamie: Find out where the communities are, because they’re already established. There’s no point in becoming a rockabilly band and setting up in a rockabilly community because there’s already one there. Go there and find those people. There’s no point setting up a forum to do with guitar pedals, because there’s loads of them. Go and speak to the people in the places where these relationships are already taking place, and build your connections there. That’s how we did it. All the connections we’ve got are longstanding connections. We meet new people all the time, who are in to what we do, but the core of it is people who have similar outlooks, similar ways of working, who we met very early on. There’s a trust element. They’ve stuck with us and we’ve stuck with them. It’s like the relationship we have with Jagz, you have a period of time, like when we did the single with Jagz and you’ve finished working and that relationship doesn’t peter out, but you don’t see each other every day or every week, but you still keep in touch. Then, like now, as soon as you’re ready to do something again, they’re always there because you’ve got that trust with them. They know you can trust them and they know you’ll be there for them.
There’s a lot of musicians who have made a shitload of money over the years, do you think they should be setting up mentoring schemes for young talent so they don’t have to rely on the corporate side of the industry?
Jamie: I think it would be great because they are the real people. There are a lot of people that do it already. Jagz for one.
Matt: I think that’s the role of a producer now, in a lot of ways. To be a producer you need to have a lot of money and a lot of time to go and find these bands, and you’ve pretty much got to present a finished product. That’s certainly what Jagz and Tim Holmes did with us. They schooled us in the way of business, in the way of synthesis, in all sorts of different ways. If I could go back 15 years and do a course on music and law and music law and music management, and I wanted to be a musician, if someone had told me I needed to do that to be a musician, rather than be blasé, you’ll never be a musician. You just think. I’ll go and buy loads of guitars and loads of amps, and go and get a coke habit. There should be some kind of scheme, but, financially, is the government interested in the arts that much?
Not so much the government, but musicians that have more money than they know what to do with, to put something back into the industry.
Jamie: I see what you’re saying, but the people who have made a lot of money in the industry are coming towards the end of their careers. With the industry as it is now and has been for the past 10 or 15 years, it’s awfully hard to change culture or change a person if they’ve got their lot and feel they’ve worked hard. There are some good people, like what George Martin’s done in the past. I know he’s given a lot of advice to producers and people like that. There is a lot of information out there, but you’ve got to go looking for it: Musicians Union, PRS (Performing Rights Society), there are a lot of people that will give the advice. I do agree, some of the musicians and artists that have made millions of pounds should be investing in that. There are a few that do and a few that don’t. I think the people that are around now, our current peers, do what they can because they know it’s going to benefit them if they mentor someone who becomes successful. It’s such an unpredictable industry.
Where do you see yourselves going from here? Or do you just want to carry on as you are?
Jamie: We just want to carry on doing the best things that we can, for as long as we can. No one can take it away from us, so we’ll just keep doing it. We’re going to do our own tour, I think.
Matt: The second record is looking very strong, and a lot of the work is done on that already.
Yes Sir Boss are a six-piece Bristol-based band that play an original, high-energy, ska-influenced music with a big, brassy sound. We first saw them in the summer, along with Dizraeli and The Small Gods, opening for another of our favourites, Molotov Jukebox. Both bands share a similar sound and their live music is impossible to not move to.
The band released their first album on 8 October, on Joss Stone’s Stone’d label – the West Country songstress features on their forthcoming single Mrs No 1, which will be released in the new year. The album was launched with a gig at the renowned Jazz Cafe in Camden, and it certainly proved that they are one of this country’s most exciting live bands. They may not be a household name yet, but once their infectious rhythms get better known, there’ll be no stopping them. Listen to (and buy) their album on Bandcamp. To find out about their forthcoming shows visit www.yessirboss.com/shows.
We caught up with band, or at least half of it – Matthew Sellors (guitar, lead vocals), Tom First (trumpet, keyboards) and Luke Potter (guitar, vocals) before their Jazz Cafe show.
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You’re a Bristol band… Tom: We live there. We’re from all over. I’m from Yorkshire, and these two are from Devon. We met at uni eight years ago, at Dartington College of Arts in Devon and we made the move to Bristol just under five years ago.
Why did you choose Bristol? Tom: We started in uni and had already developed a bit of a following in Devon, but we wanted to stay in the south west so moved to Bristol because it had good access to Devon and to London, and it’s a really cool city.
Matt: It’s got the south west vibe, and we’re all from Totness, where we met together at university. I think the south west vibe is like no other, it’s really cool and down-to-earth, fun time.
Luke: Also, in Bristol were all these bands that were doing the things we were trying to aspire to. We were just starting, and trying to figure out the kind of music we wanted to do, and this scene was already in existence in Bristol. When we got there, we got loads of help from the bands that were already there.
How much did it influence your music being there? Luke: At first it was loads because that scene there with all those horn bands and reggae bands. Because it was really buzzing and going off, we fell into that quite easily. As we’ve grown up we’ve definitely tried to push ourselves in a direction.
Matt: From when we all started playing music together the music has evolved a lot, but it’s quite a natural sound that just ended up happening. But bands like Smerins Antisocial Club and Babyhead, who were really cool. First time I saw Babyhead I thought they were absolutely amazing. They were definitely an influence.
Tom: That was one of the really nice things, was the fact those other bands, it wasn’t as if they were rivals. They welcomed us, helped us out and got us gigs. We borrowed their horn players a few times, and become good mates with them all really.
Matt: That whole scene, there’s no arrogance whatsoever. Everyone’s really helpful. We’ve only done a few gigs with Babyhead, but the first time we played with them, which was years ago in Plymouth, and they were really keen on starting a little label and immediately they potentially wanted to do a single with us and sign us to their label. It’s always been like that. Everyone always wants to give each other a leg up.
Tom: The camaraderie thing, that transfers over to the festival scene. We do gigs with both Molotov [Jukebox] and Dizraeli [and the Small Gods], and a whole host of other bands, and they’re all our mates really. You see them at loads of different festivals around the country, and it’s really nice to have those friendships develop through being in bands. Shame it’s not the same within band. (mass laughter)
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It’s always fascinated me how, when bands get together, they gel. How did you guys get together and realise that you had a rapport and wanted to play together? Luke: Drinking helps. Because we were at Dartington for that long, where we were all studying music, it was very much a case of; if you study law you want to work in law. If you study to be a doctor you want to be a doctor. We studied music so we wanted to play music. While we were at uni it wasn’t particularly realistic thing to think about doing, but as soon as you’re there you think you have a have a go at this. We did, and we haven’t stopped yet, and we’re still alive, and we still like each other.
Aren’t half the band missing? Tom: They’re locked up in the other room.
Did it really help studying music? Luke: I don’t think any of us wanted to be composers or teachers or anything like that. I think we all went to uni to get in a band.
Matt: I didn’t go there to get a distinction or burying myself in books. It’s an obscure uni; it’s not a normal one. I’m just like all the other fledgling guitarist wannabes, that was me and I just managed to blague my way into this uni for this degree, and I think it was the same for all of us. We got on to it and all we wanted to do was play music, get pissed and have a good time. And that’s what we did.
So it was like an art school where you do what you want to do and come out with a piece of paper at the end? Matt: We had three years with no job, in the countryside, studying, playing music and having fun with your mates. It’s like, some people go travelling – we went to uni, dossed around and played music. Luckily, out of it we’ve got a band that’s still playing.
You managed to do it before all the big fees came in? Luke: I don’t know. I think my student loan is earning about a million pounds a year in interest. It’s never going to get paid off at this rate.
Tom: Now it’s nine grand for a year or three grand a term. That started three years after we started, so we just missed out – luckily. I wouldn’t have gone. If you’re going to start out with 29 grand of guaranteed debt, before any of your living costs.
Matt: Especially if you’re doing music. It’s not like you’re guaranteed a job at the end of it. The only thing you are guaranteed is you can sign on.
Luke: Hey kids, go out and get yourself a guitar, a drinking habit and sign on.
That’s the way musicians used to do it. Matt: A lot of them went and studied art. John Lennon studied art, Bowie studied art, Freddie Mercury studied art, and then they formed bands and were biding their time.
Back then, the music colleges were only teaching classical music, or if you were lucky, jazz. Luke: That was the thing about Dartington, it was contemporary in every single sense of the word.
Tom: The course was basically what you made of it. They wanted you to become you as a musician or artist, and discover what area you wanted to specialise in. Ours was just booze really.
Luke: As long as you could justify it, they didn’t mind. If you could justify why booze was the most important thing at that time and that place it was OK.
Tom: But if you go to a conservatoire then you’re going to play properly. We didn’t.
Did you actually study composition? Tom: I did. These two did performance. As I said, they allowed you to do whatever you wanted, and they wouldn’t discourage anything.
Matt: As long as you could justify it, that was the key.
It’s the same with art school. You could turn out any old piece of conceptual shit, but as long as you could justify it, they were happy. Saying that, having studied, has it made your music more sophisticated when it comes to writing songs? Luke: Absolutely.
Matt: It’s a mixed bag really. If I could go back in time and not go to uni, and come back and tell you if it was more sophisticated, I would. I don’t think it does because I didn’t pay very much attention at uni. I think it helped me get where I am, but I don’t think I learned a hell of a lot.
But did it help with arrangements and so on knowing the proper structure… Luke: I think it helped with musicianship, because there wasn’t a massive amount of people there. When you had to put on a show at the end of the year, which every student had to do, you only had this little pool of musicians to pick from, so everybody played everything. You had a go if you wanted to sing 45 minutes of soul records, and you’d play 45 minutes of soul records. If you had someone how wanted to sing 45 minutes of heavy metal, you’d play 45 minutes of heavy metal, or whatever else. You pick up all these things from other musicians that were around you, and it all rubs off. I guess the musicianship really, really helped. I think that when it comes to us sitting in a room and bashing out a song, you definitely learned.
Tom: You learn collaboration, which they tried to encourage. They teach you to be flexible. There’s six of us and it can be quite hard work when you’re trying to accommodate every single persons opinion within a piece of music.
Luke: But we definitely try.
Tom: And that has been influenced through Dartington.
Luke: We were very lucky to have that. There are a lot of bands out there where one person definitely takes charge. It’s their lot. I don’t think there is any one person in Yes Sir Boss that would stand for that, at all. Because of that, we’re giving and forgiving. Everyone listens and we get there in the end. That’s what you get with the music that we produce, is a real sense of every single person and a flavour of everyone’s personality.
Matt: I always wanted to make sure that everyone had a bit of ownership. If I ever write a song, then people write their own parts. Obviously people can have a bit of guidance along the way and help each other, but everyone can have their own parts. Everyone’s got a piece of it and they can feel a bit of attachment to the song, then everyone believes in it. If you get told exactly what to play, it’s going to be pretty soulless. You’re just being a session musician if you are constantly being told what to play throughout the process of it. That was important to us and it’s why we have quite a democratic approach to writing. It works, and makes us what we are.
As long as your names on the publishing… (mass laughter) Luke: Even that is totally ridiculous. We tore up the rule book when it came to publishing splits. We’ve shown our partnership agreement to a lot of people and they’re like, “What the fuck is this? Really, you do that?” It’s complicated but it’s fair. It’s completely fair.
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Are you quite independent within the industry? Luke: We got a deal. Joss [Stone] signed us up a couple of years ago, which has been really helpful in terms of giving us the opportunity to concentrate fully on the band. We all stopped working over two years ago. But she doesn’t interfere creatively. She is encouraging and supportive. She introduced us to an amazing producer, who happened to help us with this album, and he had God knows how much more experience than us. He helped shape it and managed the whole scenario really well, in terms of people and time and the music. He kept us all up like tiny balloons in the times we were there making this record, and he sculpted it into this beautiful thing that we are totally proud of.
Do you think it’s important to have a good producer behind you? Luke: To have a subjective viewpoint from somebody who knows how to put their ideas and your ideas into practice is so vital.
Tom: And someone you can respect, to the point where they’re telling you not to play something you’re going to question it and obviously respect their opinion. It would be easier to get a mate along and them to say, “Maybe you shouldn’t do this”, but with someone that has that sort of authoritative personality, I think that’s pretty vital to get the best out of you.
Luke: It’s also so difficult when you’re in it because your vision is completely clouded. You’re in it and you’re feeling it; to everyone else, what does it sound like? Until you go home and stick it in your stereo, or put it in you headphones, you don’t actually know what it sounds like. If you’ve got that other pair of ears in there, and they go, “That sounds shit”, you can kick and stamp and scream as much as you want, but he’s probably right.
Are you going on tour to promote the album? Tom: We’re just trying to push it out there, form ground level to get it to as many ears as we can, then there’s plans for next year to go overseas. To continent: Germany, Holland, Belgium, France and those sorts of countries.
They are very open to UK bands, probably more so than the UK. Luke: They definitely are. There’s so much going on in England, there’s so many bands every night of the week. They say that 10,000 unsigned bands play in London every week. You go to Europe and they spoil you rotten. It’s very nice.
Would you like to go to the States? Your music would really be appreciated out there. It has quite an American vibe to it. Luke: It has. It’s influences. It goes back to what we were talking about everyone’s personality in the music, and everyone’s influences of what they grew up on really shines through. A lot us are really into grunge, but also anything that came out of the ’60s and ’70s, the songwriters from the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, everybody’s totally into that. There’s not one of us that doesn’t like The Beatles, The Stones, Bowie or Free, even if they are all English.
Tom: Then there’s the whole soul movement from that era, and I take quite a lot of inspiration from that. The arrangements on a lot of the Motown records are amazing. Smoky Robinson’s fabulous.
Swedish electro goddess KARIN PARK is a rare phenomenon. She has distinctive killer recorded and live vocals. She has a killer look. She has killer lyrics that push the boundaries of imagination and sensation. She and brother David give killer live performances. To match her high-level professionalism, she demonstrates sincere appreciation for her fans and colleagues, and profound consideration for other artists, having been a critical voice of support in our pussy riot commemoration concerts. One could argue that it is her upbringing in Japan that may have sparked her imagination and professional ethic, but one could also argue that it is simply her natural charm and energy which she has successfully projected into her work. Either way, the music world is a better place for having Karin Park.
No stranger to the music industry, Karin is onto her fourth album with 2012’s “Highwire Poetry.” Needless to say, it’s one of those albums that stays with you. Having supported the likes of Gary Numan, SBTRKT and Azari & III, she’s also due to support Toronto’s Dragonette in Zurich in April and we’re hoping to see a lot more of her in 2013.
We meet up with Karin on the terrace of the Hoxton Square Bar & Kitchen, the London venue where she was preparing to give a live performance and where just the day before she brought down the roof with a pounding DJ set at our FREE PUSSY RIOT LONDON CONCERT. After reminiscing over the previous day’s activities, we move on to talk her love of music, creative evolution, and Japan.
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How did you get into music? What was your first love of music?
I grew up in church – my parents are Christians – so the first music I ever heard was us singing ourselves. There were always people playing and singing in our house, but it wasn’t until I was 12 when I heard Depeche Mode that I had a musical “love” – something that I really, really loved. Of course I listened to singers like Whitney Houston, like all girl singers do really, but it wasn’t until I was 16 that I started to make my own songs and actually found my voice. I could’ve sounded like anyone else before that. I was quite technically good and was singing all the time, but it wasn’t until I found my own voice that I discovered that side.
So, did you never sing solo in church?
I sang solo as often as I could – I hated when the others were singing at the same time as me. I didn’t take singing lessons, because if you did then you had to sing in the choir. I wanted to sing solo. I had my first performance when I was 4, so the singing part came really early, and then as I got older I realized that I could actually write songs. Writing just started to mean so much more to me. I decided that I wanted to go deep and not sing anyone else’s songs – I just wanted to do my own thing.
Why did it mean so much to you?
Because I discovered that my voice can be something much more original, and instead of just singing the song I could live inside of the song in the music, which is a completely different sensation when you’re onstage. I can never get into a song in the same way as when I’m creating it myself, because it has to come from the heart.
What were you writing about?
It was just what I was thinking about or frustrated with at the time – quite childish, I guess, and it’s still quite childish in a way, because it’s about basic human feeling. I can’t decide what a song’s going to be about – it’s just what I really care about at the time. When you try to write, you just open up to something and you just have to roll with it. Sometimes I’m like, “I don’t want to write about this – it’s stupid!” but I know this song is going to be, because that’s what I really feel.
What were you creating your melodies on?
When I lived in my one bedroom flat when I was 16, I just had a guitar and I wrote songs on that. In the beginning, I didn’t really care about what my sound was, I just wrote with whatever I had at hand. I didn’t know everything from the beginning – I just did whatever I felt at the time and didn’t think too much about it, and I hate the sound of acoustic guitar but that’s what I had then. I felt really lucky that people liked my songs. So, I was like, “Hang on, let’s do stuff I want to listen to.” Then I started to care more about the sound, so I developed it slowly.
So, you were developing your tastes over time and figuring out what you wanted to create?
Yeah, I’m much more into rhythm and bass. When I heard Kelis’ album “Tasty,” I realised I could have so much fun with rhythms. I didn’t want to do the same thing, she’s soul and I kind of liked electronic music – so I did a lot of research to try to find my exact sound.
So many musicians say they block out other people’s music when they’re creating, but you were looking for inspiration?
Yeah, I’ll just steal from everyone and make it into my own thing! [laughs].
So, your career evolved in Norway?
Yeah, I’m Swedish but I moved to Norway when I was 20 and I’ve had my whole career in Norway. I lived in Bergen – you know, Kings of Convenience, Annie… all those guys are part of that scene.
I love a lot of Scandinavian electro, alternative bands. Why do you think there’s so much edgy music coming out of that part of the world?
Climate and nature – there’s not much to do there. You can’t go to the beach 6 months of the year, and you have a lot of time… In Bergen, it rains 250 days of the year, so the studio is the best place to be. Musicians there are hardworking and they build off each other to create a scene.
When you were in Bergen, did you have a sense of that creative intensity? Was it easy to build a network there?
Yeah, because there’s a lot of open honesty there. A lot of musicians come from Bergen. Everyone knows each other – they have open mics, they have studios in the same houses, they meet each other all the time, you can meet artists everywhere in cafe’s… But, I don’t live there now. I live in Sweden, together with Kjetil (Kjetil Nernes, lead singer of noise-rock band Årabrot) in an old church in the countryside where I’m originally from, and also part time in Norway – I split my time between the two. But, most of the time, I’m here in London. I’m everywhere!
So, you spend a lot of time in London for your music?
Yeah, I have my label here. We’re doing a lot of promotion and shoots lately. Also, I like the fact that there are so many different subcultures here, and so many different people who are into their individual thing and are very nerdy in their field. You don’t have that in Scandinavia because there aren’t enough people – there’d be one person in every genre. But here, it’s like people are into the weirdest stuff – they’re used to hearing alternative music and make references to all these different street things, all the different types of dubstep, drum and bass… so not only those genres, but the small genres within the genres. And I just love the melting pot of different cultures. Where I live in the church, it’s like only Swedish people there – they don’t know much about the world I live in, so I want to take all this experience to Sweden and try to educate them about it.
And your brother David plays with you now – how did that partnership come about?
We didn’t really know each other that well when we were growing up. He took care of me when we were really small of course, but when we got older, we didn’t really hang out much – we didn’t live in the same city so we didn’t see each other. When I lost my drummer from my old band, I called David because he is a light and sound engineer who can do a little bit of everything. I asked him, “Do you want to try? We might argue all the time, but let’s try for two weeks and see what happens.” It worked really well, so I said to him, “Let’s try for a couple of months.” He was used to deciding all sorts of stuff, so I made it clear to him from the beginning that I was the boss, and I think that’s what makes our balance really good because he knows that I have the final say. Our tastes gradually got closer – we both like a heavy sound and he listens to a lot of metal, as well as jazz and country and other stuff.
It’s cool that you found a point of overlap…
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So I get the impression that you are very comfortable thinking outside the box – have you always been creative like that?
Yes, I think I’ve always been open-minded. We moved to Japan when I was 7 years old – my mum and dad took the whole family and just moved to the other side of the world when no-one in my family had been outside Sweden before. They were just like, “Ok kids, we’re going!” It was a really brave thing to do. My sister was 1 year old when we went. She was so disappointed that she didn’t remember any of it that she moved back there, and my younger brother did as well – but after the Fukushima incident, he moved back home because he has children. We speak Japanese in my family…
Japan has a very distinctive culture. Would you ever want to go back there?
Yeah, definitely. Japan has a lot of soul. I have a really strong connection with Japan, and I understand the Japanese culture. Actually, when I went to China I was like “What?!” – Sweden and Japan are much more alike than China and Japan…
So you didn’t have much exposure to pop culture or role models when you were growing up, but how did that affect you?
I always felt that I had to lock down my personality. I felt that maybe I was a little too wild sometimes. Especially when I came home from Japan, I was completely different from anyone else and people looked at me as a very different thing. It wasn’t easy, so I just tried to blend in. I didn’t try to shout it out loud, but just tried to “be.” I didn’t know how exactly to do it – I just tried to be normal. I didn’t understand that clothes say something about you. I thought, “Can’t I just wear whatever I want? Why does everyone have to care?” In the end, I was wondering, “What makes me so different from everyone else? We don’t look that different. We aren’t that different… Well, we look different I guess…” And then I thought, “Oh! Just wear the same things as other people!” That was the result of not knowing any bands. When you grow up, there are so many fashion codes. You don’t realize they’re there, but they exist. And if you didn’t grow up with any codes, you don’t know them. I definitely didn’t know anything about that.
So, your childhood in Japan was really liberating…
In Japan, we lived almost in the jungle. We were 30 people in a missionary village, completely isolated from other people. We watched a little bit of TV, but not much. We had to find out our own things. I felt very free when I was there, running around in the woods – I felt like a beast. And then I felt completely locked in when I came home because I realized I couldn’t do what I’d been doing. I moved back to a small countryside school. So, it wasn’t about trying to lead fashion, it was just about making people think I wasn’t crazy. That’s all I wanted… people to love me. My family was encouraging, but everyone else was like, “What are you doing?” So, I had the music which saved me – that was the only positive thing. Then I moved to Stockholm when I was 15 to live alone, and that was just perfect because I could do want I wanted. It took me a long time before I realized that maybe it’s actually a good thing to be different…
Yeah, I guess it’s about building your own self-confidence, isn’t it? There’s still way too much pressure on girls and women to conform to fashion stereotypes. You mentioned that it takes a while for audiences even in London to get used to your short hair look onstage…
Yeah, it’s weird… but I don’t know if I’d have it any other way either, because it’s quite nice. I like that now…
You’ve evolved your music quite a lot over the years. Did it ever scare you to experiment and switch direction? Or were you pretty confident with that process?
Well, in 2007, I had a kind of musical identity crisis. I knew what I wanted and I knew that I didn’t want to do the thing I had done, but I didn’t quite know how to attack a new record. Then I was misdiagnosed with cancer. They called me and said that I had a really aggressive type of cancer in the uterus. I asked if I was going to survive and they said, “Uh, we don’t know what to say – can you just come in?” You’re not really supposed to tell people they have cancer on the phone. From that message, I felt I got a clear view suddenly, because all the stupid things in life like what perfume you’re going to wear kind of disappears and only the most important things are left. So, instead of being depressed about it, I started to think very clearly really fast. When I arrived at the doctor’s, it turned out that they thought it was going to develop into cancer but if I had an operation I’d be fine. So, I did that, and that was part an emotional period after being depressed for a while. So, getting that sort of thing actually just straightened me out completely, then I kind of knew: “Ok, now I know this is what I’m going to do – I’m going to work with these rhythms, I’m going to dance on stage, I want to move around, I want to be alive.” You don’t really think when you go to the doctor that that’s the way it’s going to go. It made me quite fearless I think: if I’m going to die, it’s not really a big problem, I’ve had a good life, I’ve done a lot of cool stuff, it’s not such a bad thing, my mum’s going to be sad but I’m going to be fine… So, if I ever get that message again, I know how I would react.
In terms of knowing what you want as an artist and in your life?
Yeah, I’m happy about that. I told the doctor I wrote a song about it, because they were shocked that someone told me on the phone, but I said, “It’s fine – but just don’t ever do it again.”
How are you feeling now about where you’re at, after that journey?
I feel I get to do cool stuff right now and I meet a lot of cool people who I admire who like the album. I go out into the world and get to eat these nice foods from all these different countries. It’s very exciting and I’m very grateful. I have been to the States but would like to go to Poland, Estonia, Romania… In Western media, you never really hear what’s really going on in East Europe…
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If you could talk to yourself when you were growing up, what advice would you give to yourself? Or to other young musicians now?
I just want to say to people, “Do stuff!” Instead of watching TV, there are so many things to do. Your imagination is the most important tool. I look at the world sometimes and how people live. It’s so easy to paint yourself into a little corner: “I must do this in my life…” so you can’t really don’t do anything. But, you can do everything – that’s what I think about every day. You can actually do it. Don’t be lazy, just do it.
Yeah, talking about not putting limitations on things, when I think about yesterday’s Pussy Riot concert, we prepared that in 3 weeks which seems crazy now…
I really admire that you did it. You actually did it!
Thanks to you guys, of course. I did it out of frustration – I just couldn’t bear watching my own country’s music community do nothing. We needed more action, we needed artists to stand up together and protect ethics.
If people go out there and do stuff, it’s because we need it. It’s important not to blame the men who live now, because they are also a victim of the patriarchal system. When I look at a lot of men now, there is hope, but I think the whole patriarchal system needs to be broken down a bit. Men go out and do stuff. But I think women aren’t encouraged to go out there and do stuff because they don’t have as many role models – but that’s what we need.
Yes, it’s important for women to have strong role models – whether it’s a singer, politician, mother, sister…
And, even if you don’t have a political agenda, you can do something. You have to do what you want to – do something!
Toronto band Austra’s live shows are nothing short of magical – fans of the band will know what I mean by that. Within seconds, you will be entranced by the band’s stage presence and smooth, dark, lilting and edgy sounds. You will be impressed by lead singer Katie’s vocals and intense energy, as well as the fabulous harmonies of sisters Sari and Romy, Dorian’s tight bass and Ryan’s playful electronics. But, what gives the band its soul and sexiness are the drums – you will be seduced by the stomping beats of drummer MAYA POSTEPSKI and her laidback “I can do this in my sleep” attitude. Performing live, Postepski sits coolly at back of stage – her cockpit – pounding out those iconic Austra beats like a walk in the park while keeping the rhythms and tightness of the band in check, taking the image of the cool, sexy, talented drummer to another level. This band would not be the same without her, you will start thinking – and you would be right.
Female drummers have been overlooked and ignored for far too long in the music industry. Many have had to fight long and hard to break down stereotypes of what female percussionists can bring to the game – to prove that their gender has nothing to do with their invaluable contribution to the band and its success. Some of the most talented and iconic female drummers have suffered such terrible prejudice that they were eventually forced out of the band altogether – just look at the fate of Patty Schemel, former Hole drummer, whose life was completely blown to pieces after her scandalously calculated expulsion from the band by the then-producer Michael Beinhorn. Despite his criminal tactics, Beinhorn controversially went on to receive a Grammy nomination in 1998 for the band’s most successful album to date “Celebrity Skin” (Schemel’s face and name adorns the album sleeve even though the drum tracks are not actually hers – she was replaced during recording by an unknown male session drummer after Beinhorn set her up) – not an atypical industry story, as Courtney Love has resignedly confessed. Love later took her comments a step further, calling Beinhorn “still a nazi fuck” at a screening of 2011 documentary Hit So Hard which details the producer’s relentless bullying of Schemel and the awful tragedies that ensued. The commercial industry, it seems, continues to embrace industry males above and beyond female musicians and ethics.
Getting back to Postepski, not only is Maya one of the best drummers out there right now, finding herself ranked alongside other iconic drummers, she is a powerhouse of energy and productivity – a master remixer, producer, multi-instrumental percussionist. In addition to Austra, she has been a key member of TRUST, and continues her own project Princess Century. Ever humble, we get to know her better in this interview, where she tells us about her passion for the drums, sleeping in ex-asylums and why singer Katie Stelmanis saved her life.
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Well, let’s get to know you a bit better – we like to have the artists speak openly about their backgrounds and what drives them. So much of mainstream journalism is just regurgitated information…
I don’t know why people do that. It’s like: just use your brain a little bit…
Well yeah, exactly.
I’d never become a journalist if I wasn’t actually interested in investigating things. But anyhow, that’s another discussion…
So, what’s your family background?
My family’s from Poland and I was born in South Africa. My parents were working there – they lived there for like 10 years and they had me. It was getting really weird there, so they were like, “We need to get out of here.” They applied to emigrate to Canada and Australia, and Canada just responded a couple months faster… So, I would’ve either ended up in Canada or Australia, but I ended up in Canada…
If they’d moved to Australia, do you know which city?
No…
So, it’s that path of life that never happened and that you’ll never know…
Yeah, it was kind of random. I was thinking maybe I’d be a surfer or something! Or maybe I’d end up a drummer, who knows?
Your parents are both Polish by origin?
Yes.
Did they speak Polish with you?
They did when I was a little younger, but I think they really tried to assimilate themselves into the new country. So we still spoke it a little bit, but when they were in Austria my parents spoke German, and when they lived in South Africa they learned Afrikaans. So, I guess they’re just into being wherever they are. It’s kind of cool – I guess I respect that because if I moved to Sweden tomorrow, I’m not going to just get by on my English just because everyone speaks English – I think you have to try to get into wherever you are.
Are your parents inspirational for you, in terms of branching out, not staying in the same place?
Yeah! I mean, without getting too political, I think a lot of cultures get stuck in themselves. I found that a lot of Polish kids at school wanted to be my friend just because I was Polish, and I was like, “That’s kind of not a good reason to be my friend…” It is if it’s because you’re an artist or writer or whatever, not because you’re from a country. So I find that kind of a small, closed-minded way of thinking about things. And yeah, I guess my parents were always kind of international and interested in other places and other things, and they were never scared of that. They ran away from their country because it was communist and they hated that. So yeah, I think that they are brave.
Talking about being an artist, you’re quite the musical multi-tasker. But, how did you get into music and why did you decide to focus on the drums?
Well, I went to this art school when I was a kid – all through high school, actually – so it was for kids who were into music, dancing or acting and stuff. I was really lucky to go there, because it was a very untraditional education and I remember it was like a fantasy world – it seemed like we could do anything we wanted. I took mime class when I was like 8 – that’s pretty weird. And I had been playing piano since I was 3 or 4, so I had this strong musical background. And when I was 10, I had to choose what major I wanted to go into, which was your class that you do for 4 years. So, you choose art, drama, dance or music, and then there was a brand new category this year that I started called “percussion.” And I was like, “I don’t want to dance, I don’t want to sing, I don’t want to paint, I don’t want to act, I don’t want to play violin…” Then I was like, “Huh, what is this percussion thing?” I honestly took this form to my mum and I checked “percussion” and she didn’t even know what it was – she was like, “What IS this?” But she signed it for me and I just went to this class honestly not knowing what the hell I was going to do.
My teacher Adam was awesome, and I was really intuitive with the drums from the very first day. He did this very simple exercise where he played a rhythm and we played it back – we went back and forth and there were only like 8 of us. So we were just playing, copying him, and I was getting the rhythms perfectly because I played piano and it’s highly repetitive, but all the other kids didn’t get it and I got it straight away every time. I was actually very proud of myself. I thought, “I’m very, very good at this,” and when you’re 9 years old that’s a really big feeling. I was terrible at math, I was terrible at writing, I didn’t really care about that stuff, and so I was finally good at something at school and I was like, “Wow!” It just felt so good to be exceptional at something, finally. It just felt like I was special all of a sudden.
Yeah, it’s important, isn’t it, for kids to have access to the arts and to know they can excel in anything, even something different from the norm?
Yeah, it makes me so sad, because later on I started teaching drums to kids privately. I didn’t do it for too long – maybe for a year because then the band picked up. They were so interested in learning and practising and they were telling me, “I never do anything at school – I don’t feel challenged.” I was like, “Man, this sucks!” Kids are like sponges – all kids, no matter what they do or where they’re from – they just want to do something they’re good at, whether it’s dancing or singing or anything, you know? And so, if I have kids someday, I think I’m going to have a non-traditional education for them. The public education system’s just not good enough – I mean, there’s just no money in it, right?
Yeah, talking about education in Canada, the student protests this year were really intense – some very brave people over there looking out for the kids of the future…
Yeah, that’s all happening in Montreal with the university students – that’s really cool. But that’s Quebec: that’s like totally different, because Quebec has its own spirit. It’s incredible! They’re just so revolutionary – they’re so not afraid to just get into the streets and make a noise.
So, when you were drumming as a kid, did you already envision making music your future?
Yeah! All I remember from when I was a kid was that I left this class the first day and I was like, “I’m going to do this with my life.” I was a 9 year old girl playing the drums and I had this realisation. I don’t know, I guess other people have had that too when they’re young – just this overwhelming sensation that you’ve found what you’re supposed to do. I didn’t really care, I knew that somehow I’d make it work. And now that I’m a little bit older… yeah it’s tough and it’s been a long, hard road to get here, and I’m still not entirely satisfied with every part of my career, but you just have to keep going. What I always tell myself too is: if this ends, that’s fine – at least I tried and at least I got somewhere. There are always going to be normal jobs out there – they’re just not going to go away. So if I’m 36, and I have to go back to school for a couple of years and become a real estate agent, I’m fine with that. But I try not to think about that. You get hung up on that stuff like, “Man, I’m not making any money, I’m not having any savings, I’m just kind of living like a pirate…” but you have to not think so much about that, otherwise you can drive yourself crazy.
Yeah, it’s really tough. You made a brave decision.
It’s not a good future – I still don’t know if I’m going to ever make any money from this – REAL money – but I’m okay with that right now. It’s tough, but you just have to keep going and I’ve always believed that people who work hard will be successful and so far it’s paid off.
Did you have any role models, growing up? Anybody who spurred you on…
Yeah, in high school I was in this jazz band and this guy Arden was really, really good – he was always practising after school. He was like, “I’m going to do auditions to be in an orchestra” and I was like, “Wow, that’s so cool!” So, I would practise after school with him sometimes, and eventually I had the same teacher as him and did an audition to go to the University of Toronto to study classical percussion for orchestra. I got in, so I stayed there for 4 years, got a degree in percussion, and that just really made me go to a next level – you learn something about listening, I mean REALLY listening. I feel that a lot of musicians don’t really listen to who they’re playing with – they’re kind of in their bubble: “I’m playing drums, I’m going to listen to the drums…” You should just listen to everybody because it’s incredible. Playing with different people over the years, you start realising that most musicians don’t know what they’re doing.
So, are you quite fussy now about who you play with – can you tell straight away if it’s clicking?
You can tell within the first 10 seconds.
Wow! That’s fast…
But, there are also different objectives with every band. I like to play with people who are really listening and play really ‘in time’ who are willing to practise really a lot. I’m quite strict with rhythmic things and it’s hard because that’s not what everything is about. So I’ve had to learn to loosen up a little bit about that, because I’ve become a bit of a perfectionist after practising with an orchestra for 4 years – you get into a really nitpicky mentality: “That pianissimo violin note was just a hair too soon…” even though 99% of the audience won’t notice. Being in a band is a totally different mentality – there are different goals: you want to create a vibe, an ambiance, a feeling rather than playing a ‘perfect song.’ So, I’ve learned to compromise and just loosen up a bit.
So, does that mean you get to be a lot more creative now?
Exactly. And when you’re working with a strong singer, you start thinking about the song as an overall mood, rather than these little pieces of information that all fit together perfectly. It’s also a smaller ensemble, right? When you’re playing to an orchestra, there are like 50 people sometimes so you have to worry about each little ant being in the perfect place, whereas with 4 to 6 people it’s more about “Can we make this feel good?”
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So, what are you up to right now?
I’m in a small town in Michigan with Austra – we’re recording in the middle of nowhere. It’s a really cool studio that our manager told us about and there’s all this old gear and analogue synthesisers, so we’re just kind of messing around. We’re just sitting in the studio all day because it’s like 50 degrees outside and we’re just playing with all this old crap…
Nice! So, are you actually recording or just trying stuff out?
Well, there’s a lot of that but we’re actually recording, yeah. We’re just kind of making demos. We don’t know if we’re going to keep everything but we’re definitely going to try and keep stuff.
So, what’s the recording lifestyle like? It must be pretty different from being on tour…
It’s funny because we’re always together in close quarters for 24 hours a day on tour, and we’re kind of doing the same thing right now. I mean, it’s a little different, because we all have our own bedroom and we sleep in the same building – it’s kind of like we’re at summer camp! And that’s cool because it means we don’t have to stay in a hotel and we get to go swimming in the lake – we’re going swimming every day. Today is our last day here, so we’re just going to review everything we’ve laid down and do a rough mix to take home with us. And tomorrow we’re going to drive home and keep writing. Maybe we’ll go for a swim later!
And at least you get some sleep, right?
Oh my god, I’m still in my bed right now! We’ve been sleeping SO MUCH lately. This is like early morning for me. I’m in a bunk bed right now – just me and 2 giant bunk beds. We’re barely like an hour and a half outside of Chicago, but that’s like nowhere in America.
Wow, so it’s very intense…
Yeah, but it’s really good. I feel like we’re all working at maximum efficiency because there’s no driving to the studio, meeting up for coffee… we all just roll out of bed and make a coffee and work.
And when you’re on tour, you make a point of not staying in regular hotels? When we talked in Manchester, you said you were excited to stay somewhere in nature…
Yeah! Sari, one of our backing singers – her job is to book us hotels. She always tries to find us weird places to stay – or weird hotels that were converted from insane asylums into hotels! There’s one in Amsterdam that’s really, really cool – we stayed in this room once with 8 beds. We were checking in and we’re like, “So, there’s 7 of us” (because we have a tour manager) and they were like, “Okay – so you’re staying in this room.” And we were like, “Um… but there’s 7 of us…” but they were like “Yeah, yeah.” And we were like, “What the fuck??” So we get into the room and there were 8 little single beds all in a row… and they’re all connected! So we all slept like little matchsticks next to each other!
They were connected?? So you couldn’t even move them around?
No! And the bathtub is like really deep – it’s like you can drown in it. It was so cool…
And this was a converted asylum or something?
I think so. But when I met you in Manchester, we were staying in the Peak District.
How did that go?
Well, it was pouring rain all day when we stayed there, but we just stayed at this inn in the middle of the Peak District. It was like a pub, so we just drank cider all day and went to bed at 8 o’clock drunk – because we couldn’t go outside.
You’ve done quite a bit of moving around on this tour, but which city did you particularly enjoy?
It was really nice to be in Barcelona actually at the very end of the tour, because my girlfriend used to live there, so she showed me around and we stayed in an apartment, and I didn’t have to worry about getting lost. It was my first time really seeing that city properly and I really love it – I think it’s amazing.
Can you see yourself relocating one day? Or does it depend on what’s going on with the band?
At this point, if I suddenly was to buy a house, if I had money, I don’t know where I’d want to live. I feel like after travelling around the world so much, you just want to live everywhere. I mean, I love Toronto, which is where we’re from. I just feel like I don’t know at this point – it depends on where my life is when I get there I guess. I like everywhere! I want to live in this corner, in that corner… I could live in Sydney or New York or London… I don’t even care anymore…
It sounds like you’re really into the big cities?
Well, I don’t know why I said those 3 things actually because I feel like I would have to live in the country! I mean, I’d like to ideally have a small flat in a big city like London and then live in the country.
And only go into the city for work or shows?
Yeah. The thing about being an artist or a writer is that you don’t need to be in the city all the time.
In fact, it may drive you a bit crazy being in the city the entire time…
Yeah. I grew up in the city – I love big cities, it’s a vibe I really like. But the older I get, the more I appreciate the stillness and quietness and isolation, in fact. Not forever – I just appreciate those things after all this moving around, you know?
Yeah, definitely. So let’s talk about your creative relationship with Katie – you’ve known each other for a while…
Yeah, we’ve been working together for like 9 years.
Almost a decade!
It’s the longest relationship I’ve ever had with a girl! It’s like our joke.
It’s so inspiring to see creative relationships that work well and evolve, where you respect each other and don’t end up in some massive breakup…
Yeah, I don’t like that. I’ve recently gone through one of those with my other band, Trust. It’s so awkward and sad and drama, whereas Katie and I kind of keep it real all the time.
It’s pretty difficult to find the right collaborators and you’ve worked on different projects. You were also in another band with Katie before Austra…
Well, when I was 17, I met Katie and our friend Emma and we started a band called Galaxy – it was a riot grrrl band, so we did that for 3 or 4 years. Then we broke up and Katie started doing her solo stuff and she wanted me to play drums live with her. So, I didn’t write any of that stuff, but I always kept going with her. And then eventually after a few years, it became Austra and we added more people. So, that was kind of lucky – Katie and I just met and we never stopped working together, so we kind of grew up together in that way. And we had all those shitty tours that we went through – sleeping on people’s floors, dragging gear across Europe on boats and trains. It was hell, but also at the time we were so motivated. If I had to do that right now, I’d be like “Fuck this…” and I’d probably never do that again. But I’m 5 years older now and you get comfortable with all of the luxuries, right? Like now we stay in hotels, have a driver and a tour manager. Now we’re just these lazy princesses, even though, by any normal human being’s standard, it’s not nice.
Was Austra a natural evolution or did you guys actually plan the band’s concept and setup?
No, it was like Katie doing her weird music and then she picks this weird band. Like, I was at one point playing stand-up drums, marimba and glockenspiel and singing backup – it was just a circus! And, we had this awesome guitar player. The band switched around so many times, and so now the 6-piece that we have is a very kind of ‘normal’ setup: 2 backup singers, a bass player, a key player and a drummer – it’s WAY more traditional in my mind, even though it’s still kind of ‘out there’ by most people’s standards. Most people were like, “Who IS this? It’s like a circus…” So it was never calculated. It was all just like, “Oh, we met Dorian the bass player… Oh, and then we met Ryan…” – it was super natural.
Austra has gathered a very loyal following because you’re known now for your brilliant performances as well as the music – you’ve got the whole package. Were you aware that the crowds love the setup?
No, it makes me really happy to hear that, because I think that my band is really great and everybody in it is really special. I’m glad to hear that people like us together.
Yeah, for sure! People are really appreciating each of you individually in the sound and on stage…
Yeah, it makes me happy that people know that it’s a band and it’s not just Katie with a bunch of studio musicians.
Yeah, talking about musicians not receiving credit, drummers – especially female drummers – have tended to be overlooked or boxed by the media which makes it hard for them to be taken seriously by the industry. Do you think this is getting better?
I don’t know. I still watch music videos and even concerts sometimes. I try not to watch anything to do with us, because I find it kind of weird – I don’t like to read press or any of that stuff. But sometimes I see videos of us and it’s not anything to do with the band, it’s just a stupid camera person who only focuses on Katie’s face – that’s not interesting first of all, by any aesthetic standard, and then it’s just weird how camera people don’t cover the whole band… It is a project that incorporates all of us, so it’s weird to me when people with cameras only focus on one person.
Let’s talk about you on stage. You all look like you’re having so much fun, and you’re probably the most laidback drummer I’ve seen live…
I think that on stage I just try and relax and have fun, and just enjoy playing my instrument. I really love playing drums so much that I think it’s kind of relaxing – it’s like having a glass of wine and a cigarette.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a musician talk about being on stage like that!
It is! And not because I want to seem casual, but I just feel calm and so happy, you know?
Yeah, that’s impressive. So, if that’s your relaxation, what stresses you out? And what else do you do to blow off steam?
There’s lots of stress on tour. I like to do lots of stretches before I play and I like to go for a run usually after soundcheck before dinner. And yeah, I kind of like to be alone, because there’s so little alone time on tour. Before I get on stage, if I have a lot of things to do, I get a little stressed out – if I have to do some little photo thing or do my makeup, or if there’s lots of friends backstage, I get stressed out sometimes.
I guess that’s the good thing about being a band and not a solo artist – you can understand and help each other, especially I guess with Katie?
Yeah, the whole band is really intuitive with each other at this point. It’s like we don’t even have to speak to know what we’re feeling. Everyone in the band is really sensitive to everything, really gentle and open.
Now there are a lot of electro bands coming out of Toronto or Montreal, Austra is one of the bands heading that new wave electro sound. But, I heard that when you and Katie started up, you found it tricky because people didn’t really get what you were doing…
People thought we were like freaks! I think people thought we were really interesting and they could appreciate that Katie’s really good at singing and that I was good at drumming, but they were kind of baffled by us as a duo – they were like, “What the fuck are these girls doing?” But, when I look at an old show I’m like, “Wow, we were total freaks.” Now the band seems so much more dumbed down or traditional or something… I still feel like Austra’s going to go back there though. I think in the future it’s just going to go crazy – it’s just going to go into full opera mode! If we could get like a set designer, I just think it’s going to go crazy!
The Austra opera – it’s doable. Electro opera!
People love that stuff!
Yeah, it’s true. Your performances now are so honed and tight that it’s exciting to imagine where Austra’s going to head in the future…
When we first released Austra, I was like, “I don’t know what people are going to think of this – it could go one way or the other.” But when “Beat and the Pulse” comes on, it’s like we’re really cool… It’s like “the nerds made it!”
Yeah, what I love is that you guys also really care about your look – you have a perfect combination of music and edgy videos (“Lose It” is a surrealist’s wet dream, “Beat and the Pulse” was controversially censored by YouTube for some very tame bearing of female flesh). The UK industry has become quite stale so it’s great to have inspiration from bands from North America who invest in creative videos, style and sound…
I don’t know why a band wouldn’t do that – that’s where you can have fun, that’s where the magic is, so why make a shitty, boring music video?? It doesn’t make sense – it’s totally weird… when you could be making something fun and imaginative. I’m happy to hear that there are a lot of bands coming over from North America, and Canada has a lot of incredible talent, so I’m glad that you guys are open to it because the UK is a very important market for bands from North America – it’s kind of like if you make it in the UK, you’ll be fine for a little while.
So where do you feel you’re at? Are you breaking the UK market?
Well, it’s hard to tell – we haven’t done a huge tour of the UK ever. We did a bigger one this summer, but I just think we haven’t spent enough time out there. But, hopefully with the new record, we can make sure we’re over there more often because it’s such an important place for music. All or most of my favourite musicians, bands or DJs come from the UK. It’s such a small place in the world, but so important for our music history – for some reason, there’s such an incredible amount of talent on this tiny island!
And how is the Toronto music scene these days? I guess you don’t get much chance to be there since you’re on the move…
Over the past 2 years, we’ve been away so I don’t know any Toronto bands. I haven’t seen a show in Toronto in 2 or 3 years because we’ve been on tour, so I’m out of the loop to be honest. Every time we go to Toronto, I’m like, “Holy crap, that city’s changing so quickly… wow, that bar’s closed, there’s all these new restaurants…” I don’t know what’s going on in Toronto, but apparently it’s good from what I hear. It’s fun to be away for so long and come home, and you’re like, “Wow, it’s been 2 years…”
So do you have a timeline for when the new Austra material will be coming out?
Yeah, so we’re doing demos now, then we’re going to go back on the road one more time – we have a tour in September. Then we want to record in the fall – in October. And if everything goes smoothly, we’ll have something out in May or June… spring/summer…
It’s a long haul, isn’t it?
There’s so much lead time, right? Like press, and when you’re putting a record together a lot of other things happen
So, how are you feeling about the new album?
After this week in the studio, I’m SO excited – I wish I could tell you how excited I am! The new material’s sounding – I mean, it’s just crazy – it’s like all my dreams for Austra coming true! And also we’re collaborating more, so it really feels like a lot of different spices are being put into the pot, not just one.
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Austra is proving to be a very successful collaboration, but working with other artists comes with its ups and downs and there was some controversy with the other band you were in, Trust. Has that blown over now?
I wouldn’t say it’s over… I have a really good attitude about it – I love working with Robert, but we’ve had a bit of a falling out. I wish him the best of luck on tour. He’s a very talented person and I just want to work with him again one day, but it’s just not the right time right now and that’s it. I’m doing one thing; he’s doing another. Hopefully we’ll meet up someday again in the middle.
You sound very philosophical about it…
I’m really proud with the work we’ve done – he’s my colleague and I wish him the best. I just can’t be in 2 bands at once – that’s just the reality of it. Too bad, eh…
It makes total sense if you’re being stretched too thin. And of course your Austra backing singers Sari and Romy are doing their own thing too?
Yeah, they have an awesome project called Tasseomancy. We’ve all kind of sacrificed our own things to focus on Austra. I have a solo project called Princess Century which has been a bit on the backburner for a while, but I’m releasing a record I think in the fall. I made a record last year and it’s being made right now: it’s mastered and it’s done – I just need to get it out, and it’s coming out on a little label in London called Kennington Records.
That’s cool, we’d love to hear some of the tracks…
Yeah sure! It’s really introspective – it’s like my journal. I don’t really write a journal, so instead I just write tracks. It’s terrifying! Onstage with Austra and Trust, I’m super confident, but with Princess Century it’s the most terrifying experience of my life.
So, it’s very personal? All your thoughts go in there?
Exactly. And then if it’s a good song, I donate it to Trust or Austra!
I’ve often found that artists have 2 sides to their personality: the ultra-confident person who’s enjoying their music and the other person who’s kind of fragile and introverted. Do you relate to that?
Yeah, that’s why I’ve got a therapist! I think any good artist puts on a very good mask, and I’m trying to break away from that and just be more honest with all of the work I do, but it’s hard. I mean, the work I do is very pure – I don’t hide anything. But when you’re onstage, or in interviews or meetings with people, it’s easy to put on this shell that’s like, “I’m cool, I’ve got my shit together, I’m doing everything.” But really, I’m just like a little ant – I’ve just got a little ant inside here that’s like “Hello!” and I’m in this big shell. I think a lot of musicians are like that – they can easily pretend to be totally cool.
Yeah, it’s hard to stay confident. Many musicians suffer from a kind of creative block and go through sometimes long periods of not even playing their instrument. What would you say to artists who are struggling to be creative?
Yeah, I went through that maybe 4 years ago. I was like, “I need to get better, I need to just work, I need to write, I need to…” and I just kept talking and talking and talking about it. And my best friend, Jenna – she’s a painter and quite successful – she told me, “You just have to try every day, go into your studio and try and write a song, or try and write a drumbeat, or try and write anything… anything you do that sucks, at least you know you tried.” So, if you’re a writer: try and write a story, a poem, whatever! Even if you chuck it in the bin, eventually you’re going to do good stuff, right? So that’s what I did – I went into my studio every single day for like 8 hours and the first month or 2 was like crap… terrible crap. Then eventually, I just kept doing this routine and really good stuff happened – REALLY good stuff! And then, I started working with Robert [Alfons] and then we wrote a record. And all of a sudden, we had things happening, and it just goes and goes – it’s like a train, once it starts, it just goes…
I guess it’s like when an athlete is training…
Yeah! Like, the first time you go for a month you’re going to be stopping, but if you train for a month, you’ll be totally fine to run for like half an hour. I think it’s just discipline and not pitying yourself, and not being like, “Oh poor me.” Just shut up and do it! It’s a really harsh approach, but a lot of people talk and talk and talk… Go play your instrument and get good at it! Go write a story! Go write 25 stories and get really good at writing! Just stop talking – and do it!
Yeah, everyone really struggles in different ways and the key is to find your own rhythm that works for you…
Yeah, I made a routine every day. I like to work in the morning – that’s my power time. Some people work at 5 in the morning. I found that my best productive work was from 9am to 5pm, so every day I worked from 9 to 5 and I treated it like my job. You’re committing to yourself, you know? It feels so nice to give yourself power – like, “You know what? I’m not going to go out for lunch with my friend today – I’m working…”
Yeah, building your own rhythm and structure is really hard, and it’s important for people around you to understand that. Do you have a good balance now?
I don’t think I’ve actually found a balance. It’s really extreme being on tour because you’re giving 100% to your music all day, every day. I’ve had to teach myself to stay in touch with people and communicate better, and make sure I call my mum every couple of weeks. Time and space are so different on tour as well – anyone who’s gone on a long trip knows that suddenly a week goes by and it’s like, “Whoa, I forgot!“ I think the people I’m closest to in my life just get it now when I don’t call for a couple of weeks or don’t send an email back right away, but it’s not very nice and I’m still struggling. I think what my problem is right now is that I give everything to music, so it’s difficult for me to keep a good romantic relationship. Not just because I’m not in once place, but it’s because I’m not willing to give up all that energy, you know? And it’s selfish for sure, but I’ve been given this moment in my life to really do something that my dream is, so I’m okay with it because not a lot of people get here, and I feel like I can’t just fuck it up – I want to do it 100% right now.
Some people in the band have longterm, committed relationships, and I’m just not that good at it right now – I’m kind of like, “Ok, I can give 100% or 0%.” So, I’m figuring it out. I’m seeing someone right now and we’re sorting it out a little bit, but every month is different – some days are good and some days are not so good. Luckily, she’s also a musician and she’s toured so she kind of gets it more than a normal person would – she gets when I don’t call for a few days, because sometimes on tour you’re just exhausted and you can’t go on Skype at 2 in the morning after your show. So, we’re figuring it out but it’s not easy…
I guess that’s just the way it is when you’re really into what you’re doing – it can be challenging. And your mid-20s can be a very intense period if you have dreams you want to pursue…
I’m 26 – an old lady! I always wanted to be successful by the time I was this old…
Well, you’re doing pretty well!
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It’s great that you and Katie can be such brilliant role models as artists but also with being openly gay. Do you think role models are important, particularly for kids?
Yeah, I’m so happy that Katie’s so open. I think it’s important she’s a role model for certain people – I mean, she never ‘tried’ to do that, but it’s cool that she’s open and talks about it. And I think it’s really important because, growing up, I was like, “I don’t know anything – I’m gonna watch The L Word!” I grew up in the suburbs, so I’d just watch The L Word in my room. It so terrible… but it was something, right? I just wanted to see girls making out…
So, meeting Katie must have been a major turning point for you…
Yeah I didn’t have any friends in my high school. I was friends with Katie and Emma and I was like, “These girls are saving my life! They’re gay, I’m gay, and we’re in a band – this is so empowering!”
Especially as it was a riot grrl band…
A couple of years into the band, I didn’t even know what that meant. I was like, “I don’t know what I’m doing…” I was just this girl from the suburbs and it just felt really cool, and these girls saved me…
I guess music really changed your life. And on that note, let’s end with a message of advice for people who want to do what you do?
Get on with it! Go do something!!
Hayley Mary is the lead singer of award-winning Australian band The Jezabels. The first time I met Hayley was backstage at KOKO in February where I had a wee chat with the rest of the band before witnessing them set the famed London venue alight. Tracking their progress, we joined them again at The Ruby Lounge Manchester a month on, where Hayley acerbically spoke out on stage against the indifference shown by British press towards the band, apologizing for not talking much on stage, having been pegged as “too Australian” for British music journo taste. This was all prior to the band’s Australian Music Prize (Amp) win and their Garbage support slot announcement of course. Since those announcements, the mainstream British media and public have been playing catchup on a band who has long struggled to break the UK but who has successfully held our attention as one of the tightest bands out there, not to mention one of the nicest we’ve ever met. Considering their widespread success in Australia, we’ve been shocked by how little radio play the band still gets and how few people have even heard of them in the UK.
The night before Manchester, we had already captured our first glimpse of the Jezabels/Garbage lineup in Wolverhampton: earning themselves a barrelful of new fans, The Jezabels impressed the crowds to make way for Shirley Manson’s dramatic entrance and killer set. Now, sitting serenely together backstage at the Manchester Academy in an unusually zen atmosphere of calm, with the comforting hum of Manson and crew in the background, smashing the stage in their typical flamboyant style, Hayley and I chat all things Garbage, women in music, ethics and top tips on how to survive the touring lifestyle. Reflective and relaxed, Hayley gets right down to dinner and chat, leaving tour manager Neil to beaver away on his laptop and fellow Jezabels Sam Lockwood, Heather Shannon and Nik Kaloper to enjoy well-earned beers after delivering a blistering opening set. Oh, and we receive an unusual offer from Sam part-way through…
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So, you’re on tour with Garbage! What’s the atmosphere like backstage?
Oh, it’s pretty chilled. I mean, they’re big venues so it’s not like you’re in each other’s faces. We’ve got our own room, Shirley’s got her own room, the Garbage crew have their own room and so do the Garbage band – so everyone can have their own space if they want, but in the hallways it’s a free-for-all. They’re very talkative and lovely people, so it feels like you could go in and talk to them. I just went and stole some cokes from them actually because there was a diabetic selling merch, so I thought…
Your merch person?
No, theirs – not that anyone who’s a human being wouldn’t be fine with giving some cokes to a diabetic, but I think that if he wasn’t diabetic they would also be fine with it.
So how did the whole Jezabels/Garbage connection come about? Did you indicate that you wanted to support Garbage or were you approached?
It’s probably a bit of both. Well, I have no idea what their process is or the level of involvement they have in choosing the supports. But I have heard and did confirm with Shirley today that when you have females in the band, you have a little bit of an “up” on the other possible supports. So, it helped – well, it didn’t hinder, let’s put it like that.
Right, they’re known for that I guess.
Yeah, you can sort of tell. The more I think about it the more it makes sense, but I don’t know if they would have thought about it this much. I guess all the people working with us and them were like, “semi-pop, semi-alternative female-fronted band…”
Because you maybe have a similar vibe?
Yeah, but the music is not actually that similar so it won’t be TOO similar, so it’s good.
I guess the lineup was decided behind closed doors…
Yeah, I mean doors that I could open but I really can’t be bothered. At this point I’m very satisfied with not knowing…
It’s exciting, because you didn’t know about the pairing until quite late in the day…
Yeah, we knew there was a possibility of it but we didn’t know we would.
So now you’re actually in the midst of the tour, are you feeling more blasé about it?
It’s not blasé, but it’s all about your actual experience on tour because there are so many subtleties that could make it suck but they’re not here – all subtleties point towards it being a really great experience. Like, straight away all of them were really nice and introduced themselves and were not intimidating – I mean, they’re intimidating as musicians but not as people so that’s a good thing. With the whole team that they’ve got working for them, you can tell the niceness kind of trickles down and everyone’s nice and helpful. That really helps, because it’s hard when you just feel like you can’t ask for a bottle of water, you can’t ask for anything and you’re just there ignoring them.
Yeah, and that’s all about the atmosphere created by the headlining band, isn’t it?
Yeah, it’s just about the atmosphere being really good, and the fact that they’ve given us plenty of time to sound check – normally the support doesn’t really get to sound check. They’ve just been really good. I mean, I guess it helps that it’s just a 2-band bill.
Yeah, it’s interesting because back in Australia of course you guys would be a headlining band but here you’re supporting Garbage on an international platform. What do you think you’re learning from them or even with them through that experience?
A lot. Again, when we first started touring – just little tours supporting Australian bands – you learn from the people you’re supporting about how to be good and professional, how to treat support bands, treat your crew and stuff like that. I think that kind of continues here, and you see musicians who have been doing what they do for over 20 years and they’re really nice – still! They’re not all tainted and bitter and diva-ish. I think that kind of proves that that’s definitely the best way to go about it – you’re not trying to have some power trip over people.
Especially for a lead singer, I’d assume it’s quite hard not to fall into that trap.
Yeah, it’s a struggle to tame the diva within… but we must try.
But, it’s legitimate on stage, isn’t it? I mean, if Shirley Manson toned it down on stage, people may start questioning her performance…
Well that’s the thing! She’s got to have this persona but not really BE it.
It’s the ultimate trick to be able to click into your other persona as soon as you step on or off the stage…
The stage is a powerful place. It can transform people, I reckon. Just quietly…
Are you talking about yourself or other performers as well?
Everyone. Anyone. Shirley Manson… I mean, look at when she comes on stage, it’s like, “Fuck… fuck ME!” Did you see her when she came on stage??
Yeah… of all the stage entrances…
…hers was the bomb!
Yeah, and she doesn’t even need to really DO anything …
She just walks on and like, “Yeah…”
Yeah, she just struts on and looks at the crowd as if she’s saying, “Yeah, go on then… adore me!”
I’d never seen them live – and I know she can sing on record but it doesn’t always translate live. And you know what, she came on at the first London show, and I went, “I don’t CARE if she can’t sing!” [laughs]
She can just stand there…
Yeah. That’s enough for me. And then she COULD sing and it was like, “Fuck! Alright! She’s great!”
Yeah, and she hasn’t really aged…
No! It’s mental!
I think she must love what she’s doing so much that it keeps her fit…
I think so.
And the energy she has is incredible, because it’s a long set…
Yeah, it’s a long set. It does provide inspiration when you see people you knew growing up – I was in year two: I was 6 or 7 when they released their first album.
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Before I forget, a guy in the audience wanted me to tell you that he loves your hairstyle…
Really? It’s quite bad at the moment. I’ve just let it go – I might just let it go forever…
…and he was talking about what a crazy music period the 90s was for kids in the UK, with the Britpop battle between Oasis, Blur, Pulp, the emergence of the Spice Girls…
We’re in Manchester talking about the 90s. That’s cool!
…and then there were much darker bands like Garbage and Placebo…
Yeah, alt sort of stuff – I feel like the word “alt” IS the 90s. And Doc Martens! These [points to the Docs she’s wearing] are fake because I don’t wear leather. I’m going to buy some vegan ones…
So, was 90s music a major influence on you?
I loved bands like Concrete Blonde and I did grow up with Garbage songs around – they were pretty massive, you couldn’t NOT have heard them. You see, I’m strange because I’m really influenced by the 90s, but I’m also one of those people who’s actually really into the 80s. I know that’s a paradox, but I’m really into the 80s. It’s a strange thing because – I don’t want to talk about Shirley Manson again but I did just have a conversation with her about all this stuff, and so it’s kind of relevant – Shirley was talking about whether it’s easier or harder for girls today in music, and she thinks it’s harder because something happened in the “noughties.” There were heaps of alternative girls in the 90s – the Alanis Morissettes, the Skunk Anansies (Oh, we’re also supporting Skunk Anansie by the way, which is funny…). But there were fewer females in the alt scene after the 90s. I guess the alt music and the darkness allowed women to come into a realm that wasn’t necessarily objectifying themselves – it was still sexy. But pop – where most women still are in music – is a different thing altogether. It’s arguably still objectification because a lot of them don’t write – they’re there for aesthetic purposes and I’m not saying aesthetics are a bad thing, but you know, but they’re good-looking and they sound “nice…”
So you’re basically saying that if Shirley Manson were to do now what she was doing back then, it would be harder for her maybe?
Maybe. There are still not a lot of alternative women – like, most women are still in pop I guess. I don’t know what happened. I think that maybe because the 90s was a bit of a reaction against the 80s, then there was a reaction against the 90s.
It’s very interesting because there is a timeless quality to tonight’s show….
I find them a timeless band – I do…
But BOTH bands have an air of timelessness. Maybe this goes back to the type of music? You both do quite different things but there is a connecting point, isn’t there?
Definitely. And although those things can draw from, say, a decade – like, if you looked at our band you’d probably say we draw from the 90s – musically, you can draw from everything and everywhere. I think a lot of the time people think the image of a band defines them but they often sound like a lot of things – like, Garbage are rock, pop, alternative…
…and they have transitioned a lot.
Exactly.
Congratulations on getting the support slot for Skunk Anansie, by the way – that’s so exciting!
Yeah, we have good people, angels watching over us…
So, is it a rock ‘n’ roll lifestyle on this tour? Pampering by hotels? Warnings not to trash rooms?
No, they just go: “Breakfast isn’t included…”
That’s tame…
I think it might be different for Garbage, but then again they’re not in a hotel – they’re in a bus. I don’t know where all these things come from. I think there was a generation of rock ‘n’ roll where the systems were not developed yet – that’s where the stereotype of throwing TVs out of windows comes from. You’ve got to remember that it was the 60s – things were happening, revolutions, etc. Now, we’re all postmodern – you can sort of do what you want… So musicians have become less rebellious…
Things have really changed – the commercial and independent industries which were traditionally at war have become almost one and the same, to the point where everything looks so clean-cut and commercialized…
And Adele is the pinnacle of both. She’s the biggest independent act – she’s great. She’s indie AND she’s the biggest-selling artist in the world. I mean, what can you say? I’m sure there’s some Christian artist that I’ve never heard of that’s bigger-selling but… Yeah, I think she’s good – I think she writes from the heart.
In terms of how female musicians are doing, some female musicians do talk openly about how important they feel it is for women to make their mark in this industry, but I’m always surprised by those who insist that it’s not an issue anymore…
They’re having a laugh, I think. It’s like history existed and it doesn’t just STOP when you make it official that we’re equal – it takes a long time to transform.
Right, but what I often hear is: “Well, we’ve got Adele now so everything’s fine…”
Yeah, but then you’ve got the argument about pop… There’s SO much to talk about… like why we commercialize “the other” – and that has been black people and women in the arts for a really long time. We’re so obsessed with buying this emotion of “the other” that maybe having successful women in the arts doesn’t necessarily suggest that it’s equal between the sexes at all. It’s like saying racism is not an issue in America because there are successful rappers. It’s just ridiculous. Rap music, black music, R&B dominates pop music but that’s arguably objectification by white consumers so it’s not necessarily significant…
And then you have commercially successful female artists like Nicki Minaj out there, who – going by her shows in the UK at least – boasts a very white following.
Yeah. Well I mean, Nicki Minaj is really white in a lot of ways as well. It’s like in the 50s and 60s when Elvis was blacking it up. Nicki Minaj is like Lady Gaga but slightly more tanned… she’s drawing on a lot of really white traditions as well. I think it kind of blurs. It certainly appeals to that demographic it seems…
Totally. But this is what you guys also have to deal with, isn’t it? You depend on people buying your music…
Yeah, you do.
So, how are you finding it in the UK now? Because when we met in Manchester the last time, you felt the press response to the band wasn’t great…
I still do, but it’s funny. It’s really because – like any human being, in human nature for some reason – insults stick more than compliments. There possibly ARE more compliments than insults, but when you get a criticism you notice it and you’re like, “Right, ok.” You don’t notice any of the good stuff. I also talked to a lot of other bands and the UK’s just hard and weird. Like, these guys [points to the other Jezabels] even in London were like, “We’ve never had a reception like this – what’s going on?” because, you know, you’ll go to any other place and people will be like, “Waaahhh!” and then you’re here and they just fold their arms.
If you look at INXS for example…
How they’re also Australian…
Yeah, they also had a rough time when they got going… It could be that Britain is difficult for certain bands to break?
It is difficult to break because it’s got a fickle industry and very critical people – I’m pretty sure they invented criticism. But that’s cool, I’m down with that. However, being an Australian in Britain, there is a kind of stigma, a kind of cultural cringe.
So do you hear the phrase “Australian band” being thrown around a lot?
A little bit. I think it came from one of our first reviews where people said, “I felt like I was watching Crocodile Dundee” or something…
No way! That’s quite severe…
And it was like, “Are you serious?? Really? Is that REALLY what you felt like – or did you just not come and know that we’re Australian?” Like literally, I don’t know how you could get that from us at all, apart from the accent and we hardly talk.
That’s just how irresponsible the media can be though. They might not even go see the band live, and might not even know who the band is…
Totally. They’ll just read a review and absorb it and that’s all they’ll know about that band. Yeah. If you read about this band, some people think we’re emos – which I find quite funny – but that’s more accurate than “Crocodile Dundee!” And I do have a black fringe, to be fair, but that’s about it…
They may have seen you at least!
Yeah, they saw a picture and they know our nationality… Exactly. But hey, it’s fine. I don’t mind being Australian, but the truth is that that whole aesthetic that people associate with Australia – the blokey, bogany Crocodile Dundee – is so wrong. I mean, Paul Hogan is to blame for many stereotypes. No one calls them shrimps, I’ll have you know! We call them prawns. And a few other things: none of us carry knives – it’s illegal; we don’t wear those hats; the majority of us live in cities and wear shoes; there are no kangaroos in our backyards; and we have women in our country – contrary to popular belief, there are some girls.
Well, now you’ve toured various corners of the globe, England must seem pretty provincial?
I love England – I love how they’re kind of bastards. It’s great. My Dad is Scottish and so I kind of have that hatred for England. But I also have love for the British people in general and how they have this dark humour and can just cut straight to the point, whereas you go to other places like America where they’re very “nice” but you’re not entirely sure of what they’re really thinking. So on any day, as much as I say it’s pretty hard in the UK for bands, you’d rather honesty.
At least you know where you stand. Like, you knew where you stood at that point, didn’t you, back in Manchester?
Yeah, we knew we were going to have to kick and scream in this country and we still do and that’s fine.
But you’re definitely more at ease this time round, aren’t you?
Well, we’re supporting…
Exactly, you don’t have that same pressure maybe…
I think we know we’re playing to music lovers on this tour. Garbage fans are a mix between alternative goths, really normal people, people who love music, and young people who’ve just discovered it and it’s not intimidating at all because it’s Garbage fans: they’re just awesome and weird – weird and awesome but also really normal. So we’re just like, “Yeah, it’s going to be fine.”
And you’ll get more attention now, won’t you, off the back of this tour?
Off the back of this, yes.
What impressed me the first time I met you guys at KOKO was how tight a team you are not just on stage but also backstage – Heather mentioned that the two of you pretty much grew up together…
Yeah, I’ve known her for probably 15 years, but we’ve been friends for about 10/12. And we’ve been doing this, writing together, for about 7 or 8 years and playing in this band for about 5.
Are you pretty much like sisters?
Yeah, it’s a bit more like sisters than friends even. It’s like… Heather.
Does that help in terms of honesty?
Not in a bad way – it’s just almost a taken-for-granted situation which is good and bad, but it is what it is.
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The Jezabels/Garbage lineup seems all the more appropriate when you look at that great piece you wrote for Q on misogyny in the music industry, and the recent report where Shirley Manson called the music industry a “dinosaur” and impressively halted an Atlanta show to throw out a male fan who punched a female fan. You’re both on a similar page when it comes to ethics…
I think that’s what I meant before. I haven’t followed her statements but I think I can just tell… You know what I mean? I mean, I don’t even know if that’s a gender issue – that’s just crazy that someone punched someone.
Yeah, she’s clearly not interested in hiding her views or hiding behind her stage persona even when she’s on stage – it’s cool that she suddenly let the “diva” fall to one side…
Well, if you can call it the “diva” element of someone like Shirley Manson, the cool thing is that it’s not a “pop” diva – it’s a “staunch” diva. I feel like that is all part of her whole thing – it just comes across. Like, I haven’t heard any quote but I already know what her views are. You know from her songs, her attitude and how she carries herself, the way she talks to girls, the way she talks to us – you can just TELL.
Do you think it’s important to ask yourself as a musician: “Who am I going to be? Am I going to be a role model for young kids? Am I going to behave professionally? Or am I going to be a brat?”
Very, I reckon. I mean there’s relevance to the rough rockstar or whatever. Because if music’s getting too sterile one day and everyone’s too professional, maybe there’ll be a wave of that coming and it’ll be very important. But I think you find out very quickly that musicians are not cool – they’re nerds. They’re very hardworking people. They might get involved in some substances at points, but generally they have to get visas all the time, be in a different country every day – that takes organisation and discipline. If you think about the actual reality of musicians’ lives, they’re not cool – they’re working very hard and not sleeping very much. They’re cool in another way but they’re not like rockstars. So I think it’s really important to realize the reality of it and how you’ve just got to wind your neck in…
Talking about keeping your feet on the ground: In your acceptance speech for the 2011 Australian Music Prize (Amp), you took the opportunity to make some excellent points on the principles behind the award, because there was really some bizarre controversy surrounding that…
That speech was actually in particular reference to the criticisms of the shortlist including us, Gotye, Kimbra – it‘s quite indie but successful indie. Do you know Triple J? It’s like the dominant alternative radio station in Australia – it’s government-funded and national. The shortlist for the Amp was called “Triple J friendly” so we were sort of getting criticised in amongst this group which a FEW bloggers called a “safe” shortlist – because it’s not supposed to be about commercial success, it’s supposed to be about excellence. But when we won that, the criticisms didn’t stop – they got worse and it was like, “Well, now you really are just picking on us…”
I guess those criticisms came from Australia, because there wasn’t much negative press about it over here…
Well here, we’re not successful – we’re just an emerging thing. Whereas there, I guess we don’t need help in people’s opinion and so they felt like we were actually TOO popular to perhaps win that award or something? I couldn’t quite work it out…
But your album did really well over there. So, if it’s an award for “excellence,” isn’t that still relevant?
This is the crux. A lot of people think that “excellence” and “popularity” are mutually exclusive. However, what I said specifically in that speech is that they’re not necessarily mutually exclusive. We recognised that there are a lot of people out there making albums, and we thanked people. Just because an album sold well doesn’t mean it’s not good, but I guess a lot of people think that if something’s commercially successful, it’s bad…?
I guess every country’s industry has different issues… But, how was the local media response to your speech? In the UK at least, the mainstream media aren’t generally interested in what artists have to say – it can even be the kiss of death for a band to voice their opinion.
See, Australia’s a little bit different. There is a little bit of a tall poppy syndrome in Australia actually, so if you show yourself to be a real person that’s down to earth and aware that you’re not the bee’s knees just because you’re semi-successful, they like you for it.
So why was it important for you to deal with the Amp criticism and put it out there?
Well, I wrote that before I knew we’d won it. They said, “The Amp’s coming up tomorrow. Write an acceptance speech in case it comes out so we can send it off to whoever, so it can come out as soon as it’s announced.” And it wasn’t really that we expected it, because we were over here and we weren’t in the hype of it all…
That’s right, you were here on tour…
But I think it’s just that you hear a lot of people assuming a lot of things about you, like: “You assume you deserve it (for a start). You assume that other people don’t deserve it. You don’t know anything about the industry. You don’t know anything about all the albums that came out. You’re just a dumb musician.” – there was a LOT of that being written. The whole criticism of the award was basically tailored to the idea that: “Musicians shouldn’t be allowed to be judges anymore because this is who is getting awarded this, and only critics and industry people should be allowed to, because they actually know what music’s about.” So, musicians were getting a pretty hard rap and so were we – we were getting really criticised and everyone was saying our album was crap. Well, not EVERYONE – this was just a few angry people. So we wanted to thank people but also acknowledge that it was a hard decision and you can’t please everyone.
But you weren’t ignoring it either, because that would certainly be tempting for a lot of bands…
Well that’s easier, definitely.
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If you were talking to yourself in the early days, what nuggets of advice would you give yourself?
Hmm… Part of me would say don’t read reviews because the good ones don’t satisfy you either.
Do the bad ones prey on you?
The bad ones annoy you because they never get it [laughs]. And the good ones, they don’t get it either because they were just ready to praise you, so it’s like, “Why am I not satisfied?” And then you realise that you will never be satisfied and that’s bad. So: Don’t read reviews.
What else have you learned, apart from keeping away from reviews?
Be nice to people …except Neil – don’t be nice to Neil! [laughs]
Your tour manager?
Find the whipping boy and only be mean to that person!! [laughs] It’s ok, it’s mutual [laughs]… No, seriously…
So, seriously, is there someone you can go rage to when things get on top of you? I guess you can’t really do that within the band, because you’re all in the same boat…
We get pretty negative sometimes. I would advise people to avoid negativity, but that’s not something I do – that’s something I SAY to do. I don’t know… I talk to my manager, I just vent and he just listens and then I go, “Sorry…” And he’s like, “That’s fine, as long as you don’t tell other people these things.”
Well, you guys have definitely won our award for the nicest band around… HAYLEY: There you go!! SAM: We’re actually really rude!! Do you want me to be rude to you..?? [room erupts in laughter]
Well, sure, if you want it on the record…?!
Ah yeah…
So do you always get on with each other all the time? HAYLEY: Yeah, it’s just this all the time… [laughs] SAM: It’s mostly like this…
So, what’s the most annoying thing that’s happened when you’ve been on tour?
Well, I think that “not-sleeping night” was good… We just recently played a show in Miami which started at 1am – we drove to the airport from the show to fly to New York so we landed out at 2:30am, checked in at 4am, flew at 6am, arrived at 8 or 9am, played at 12:30 or 12:50pm… and then we did press for the rest of the day! So, I think that when you actually book a schedule where you can’t sleep, that’s not good. That was a one-off.
So another valuable piece of advice: Try and fit sleep in.
Sleep’s good because you don’t get enough anyway on tour but when you literally don’t allow for it, that’s bad. And mealtimes – because the times when you haven’t been able to eat are the worst.
Yeah, people forget that being on stage and on tour can be very physically demanding…
You need to sleep. Yeah, sleeping and eating. And, another thing I’d say but don’t do is: Exercise – because that keeps you from being miserable.
Being on tour, it must seem endless and you must lose track of time – what do you do to get a break from the craziness?
Well, you get really obsessed with Wi-Fi. Like, if there’s no Wi-Fi you get really upset. You get quite anxious. Wi-Fi is important. And you get sick of the word “Wi-Fi” so you invent codes like “wing-wong.”
What did people do in the days they didn’t have the Internet?
Well, they were rockstars and they were known as arseholes because they slept with a lot of people, remember? Sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll. The internet allows monogamy to exist – coexist with rock ‘n’ roll.
It’s chilled it out. Ok, so internet safety…
Well, if monogamy is saving you… but, that’s a whole new discussion…
Top tip for a lead singer?
Warm up and warm down.
Vocally?
Yeah – sleep, rest. Actually: vocal rest. I’m actually really bad at vocally resting because I’m a talkative person, but yeah… Don’t drink – don’t drink too much. Be healthy, actually.
Wow, this is like a new generation of musicians isn’t it? Where have the rock-n-roll-trashing-hotel-room days gone?
No Wi-Fi back then! No Wi-Fi, no Spotify… no… What else ends with “-fi”?
Well, you’re doing really well back at home and the buzz is very good over here this time. Plus, Shirley Manson is promoting you!
Yeah! She is, actually!
Has Shirley given you any great tips?
You know what? It comes back to the question about how important role models are… just musicians in general but females as well. You learn a lot just talking to them and just seeing a band that’s a lot further progressed – Garbage have been around for a while. And Shirley was just like, “Don’t worry about it.” And that’s what every experienced musician says: “Don’t worry about it – you’ll never be happy with what people say about you anyway, so you just have to keep doing what you’re doing…”
Some will be surprised to hear that Minneapolis-based band Sick of Sarah has been around for a while – in fact, they formed in 2005. Since then, they have generated a loyal following, pumped out 2 albums and replaced a drummer, namely Brooke Svanes. Welcome to Sick of Sarah, AKA Abisha Uhl (vocals), Jessie Farmer (guitar), Katie Murphy (guitar), Jamie Holm (bass) and Jessica Forsythe (drums).
The band have been working hard to build a Brit fanbase, catapulting themselves towards UK venues. This year, with some dates supporting Leisha Hailey and Camila Grey’s LA band Uh Huh Her, SoS is finally receiving some well-deserved UK attention. They even went on to blow UHH off the stage at the Shepherds Bush Empire London – memorable not only for singer Uhl pulling up her shirt over her head, driving the mostly female crowds wild, but also for SoS’ blistering live performance. In short, these guys deliver high-energy shows with Uhl ruling the stage and loving the direct crowd contact. Oh, and their music happens to rock – big time.
So, to get to know this band a bit better, here’s some interesting trivia: Lead singer Abisha Uhl grew up in Okinawa, Japan, where she lived until she was 18. They recorded their last album 2205 in a Texas studio where Karen O of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs left them behind a piece of paper with the number of a therapist and masseuse. The band’s house and rehearsal space 2205 Grand Ave has served both as a rotating home for each member of the band over the last few years and as a central creative hub – this location has become such an important symbol to the band’s identity that every member has a tattoo “2205” on their inner wrist (watch Jamie getting hers here). They’re in the middle of shooting a feature-length documentary about the band.
We caught up with 4 out of 5 of them backstage at the Shepherds Bush Empire London. After speaking to Jessie and Jamie backstage in the cosy confines of their dressing room, we picked up lead singer Abisha and guitarist Katie from the merch desk and headed outside for a very entertaining chat. Here’s Part 2 of our exclusive Sick Of Sarah interview, where Abisha and Katie talk Japanese pop stars, and how to stand tough against sexism in the music industry.
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So, Katie you grew up in Minneapolis… KATIE: Yeah!
…but Abisha you grew up in Okinawa, Japan? ABISHA: Yeah, I moved from Japan to the States when I was 18 and I met Katie a few years after that.
It’s cool that you spent time in Japan, because as you know we are SHATTERJAPAN! ABISHA: Yes! I was super pumped when I heard the word SHATTERJAPAN… I was like, “We HAVE to do this interview – it’s SHATTERJAPAN! Japan! Japan!” I have serious pride…
Serious pride in Japan? That’s cool. I conceived the project in Japan actually because I felt visibility for female artists over there wasn’t good enough… ABISHA: Yeah, it’s hard…
So did you spend most of your time on military bases? I guess you didn’t spend much time say in Tokyo… KATIE: You’ve got a military brat over here!
ABISHA: We’d stay round Narita airport area, but I hung out in Yokosuka a bunch of times, then Yokota, Misawa, Osaka… Tokyo is huge – it’s crazy. Okinawa is very villagey – I mean, Naha (capital of Okinawa) is a big area, but where I lived was all military bases. So I was a little sheltered…
And you stayed there until… ABISHA: …until I was 18 years old.
Wow, Japan must have had a massive influence on you? Moving from Japan to the US must have been like entering another world… ABISHA: For sure. I mean, my parents are for the most part American so we would go stateside every summer and I would spend a few months in Washington State – so I had the American experience there. And on the base, I had my American experience but also got the Okinawan.
And what about culture – were you also quite shut off from music when you were in Japan? ABISHA: Absolutely. I was definitely sheltered from a lot of music. But, what I was influenced by was my siblings, for the most part. My brothers were in bands and they played out in Naha, so I would go. From a very young age, my brothers would be playing in shows, they played guitar and sang – and they’re really good, instrumentally-wise…
KATIE: Her brothers are really good!
So, did you jam with them sometimes? KATIE: Oh they’ve done stuff, I’ve seen it…
ABISHA: Yeah we’ve done some stuff… but I had my own kind of route that I wanted to go down: I was very poppy. I grew up listening to a lot of Utada Hikaru…
Oh wow! Yeah, she’s really poppy… ABISHA: … and Puffy!
Oh yeah, Puffy! They were so much fun, but also edgy – poppy and edgy… ABISHA: And Amuro…?
Amuro Namie!! ABISHA: Yeah, yeah – you got it!! So, I grew up with [sings] “It’s automatic!” [everyone laughs]
KATIE: I’m laughing, just because I like hearing about stuff she did before I knew her, you know?!
Amuro Namie: Body Feels Exit (1995)
PUFFY: Ajia-no-junshin “True Asia” (1996)
We’re talking about the cheesiest of Japanese pop music! But, these women were fierce – I mean, Amuro was a trendsetter and so was Utada Hikaru… ABISHA: Utada Hikaru was a trendsetter for sure: she was the Britney Spears of Japan! She was awesome – like, her hair was awesome! And her vibe! When “Automatic” came out… yeah, it was kind of cheesy, looking back at it now, but at that point I was influenced – I was like, “Dude, this chick’s cool!” [sings] “It’s automatic!” And that one song by Utada Hikaru “First Love” was a beautiful love song!
Maybe you related to her a bit because she had that Japanese-American vibe… She was born in the States, right? ABISHA: Yeah. She grew up in the states – she’s bilingual…
Have you made Katie watch Utada Hikaru? Her videos are quite stunning… ABISHA: I think you might’ve seen a video…
KATIE: A long time ago when we met Abisha showed me some Japanese artists… If she was really into something, I’d have probably heard about it…
Utada Hikaru: Automatic (1998)
Utada Hikaru: First Love (1999)
So, are you seeing a new side of Abisha, Katie? KATIE: No, this is actually an old side of her I haven’t heard in a while! From when I first met her…
ABISHA: Actually, do you know my friend Olivia Lufkin? I went to school with her – she did Kanebo (= a huge Japanese cosmetics company) and the theme song for the France soccer cup. So, there was Olivia Lufkin, and then I went to school with her sister Caroline Lufkin…
KATIE: Ok, I DID hear about this! She did “Where’s my love?” See, I remember!
ABISHA: Oh god, Caroline Lufkin! So good…! Both of those girls are amazing. So I grew up in a very musically influenced environment for sure with my siblings and my school…
Olivia Lufkin: Kanebo commercial (1999)
Caroline Lufkin: Where’s My Love (2005)
What about you, Katie? KATIE: Honestly, I’m pretty much the only musician in my family. I didn’t really grow up listening to anything besides what was on the radio…
ABISHA: John Fogerty!
KATIE: When I turned 16, I started listening to Jewel and that’s when I started playing guitar – fingerpicking and stuff like that. I liked the melodic feel of it… I liked the singer-songwriter thing. And then I started listening to classic rock like John Fogerty, The Eagles… We all have completely different influences.
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So how did you guys meet? KATIE: I met Abisha through a mutual friend… I was in college and I did coffee shop gigs playing cover songs, that kind of thing: Sarah McLachlan, Jewel, anything… I met Abisha, and the day I met her she brought her guitar to a friend’s house. She started playing some of her original songs and that was the first time I’d ever written music to anything – I’d never written anything before besides random stuff on the piano. We sat and we played guitar together for like 3 hours, so I was like, “Wow.” I’d never thought about being in a band – I just liked to play – but then she was like, “Let’s start a band.” I was like, “She’s fun! I want to hang out with her!” So we went to this party and she started saying, “Oh, me and my band are playing at this party…” I was like, “Who’s your band?” and she said “It’s you!” She had 3 songs and I wrote stuff to them, then we played a show. And then Jessie showed up and said, “If you actually want to be a band, I’ll play bass for you” and we just started!
So, with you being an all-female band, do you think that you get treated differently in the music industry? KATIE: There’s a big difference, for sure. I think just because we’re women, people expect you – for whatever reason it is – not to know how to play your instruments. You’re expected to not exactly know what you’re doing because there’s always a man to rely on in some band, somewhere – you know, a man holding it up with the bass or with the drums or someone who can play some ripping guitar licks. You know what I mean? There’s always one that holds it down and is the strong point. But with us, I think it’s all 5 of us, so I think it’s beneficial in the sense of the whole sex appeal.
You know, I’m not stupid – I know a lot of people are like, “Oh, these girls are cute – let’s see what they can do” and they don’t expect much – a lot of people don’t, I know that. That’s why it feels good when people show up – knowing that, because of what society’s said or whatever it is, their expectations are lower but then they come to the show, we play our stuff and they’re like, “Wow, you’re actually good!” They don’t realise that it’s an underhanded compliment. And I’m not going to call it like, “Well, I’m a woman, it doesn’t matter” – I say “thank you” because I do appreciate it, I appreciate the compliment. But it IS different, because for some odd reason, people have lower expectations of girls with instruments because we’re women, so we have to look sexy, blah, blah… but we very rarely wear skirts, we just like to rock… but at the same time, I can’t disregard the fact that that helps us. I’m okay with the fact that people come to our shows because of how we look…
You’ve played a lot of Prides and recently L-Beach… but do you feel you’ve been pigeonholed as a “queer band?” KATIE: Honestly, instinctively, I think people assume that if you’re a woman and you play guitar you must be a lesbian – it’s a huge cliché, stereotype…
Kind of like women who play football… KATIE: Right – like, “you HAVE to be a lesbian, you MUST be.” I mean, if you’ve gone as far as playing professional football or professional basketball “then you MUST be a lesbian…” The thing is, though, I don’t mind being pigeonholed personally, because I’m a very proud lesbian. So I never hid that from the beginning, because I knew that that was going to be involved when I started being in music, and people were going to ask questions because it’s assumed. We’ve had so much support from the LGBT community – we embrace it, we enjoy it, we feel good about it, honest to god, because those are my people. You know what I mean?
Yeah, and I guess it doesn’t hurt to be compared to Tegan and Sara… ABISHA: No, absolutely, of course not! So many people are like, “Why don’t you tour with Tegan and Sara?” I don’t know! Ask them. That’d be great…
KATIE: That’d be something! Maybe the names are too similar, I don’t know. But being pigeonholed, considered cliché or stereotypical doesn’t bother me, because I believe all of those things kind of exist for a reason. You know, I kind of seem like a lesbian, and I’m not mad that you think so. You know what I mean? I’m not mad when people assume that, because I walk kind of tough and that’s how it goes. And as far as our band goes, we all have different looks, we all have different appeals. Some of us date men, some of us date women, and if a certain group of people want to embrace us, then that’s fine.
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What message do you have for artists out there who are trying to do what you do? KATIE: Honestly, I didn’t learn what sacrifice was until I did this – and it’s not in a huge, epic sense because there are harder things to do than tour and be in a band – but I’m saying that when you continually sacrifice for your passion, when you want your career and your passion to coincide, the more you fight for it, the more you give to it, the better it feels – the more fulfilling it is. I used to be a hell of a lot more materialistic than I am now, but I’m happier now than I was before the band started. Honestly, record anything you’ve ever written – it doesn’t matter if you think it sounds stupid because you can use it in a different song, you can place it with anything else. And there’s always more you can give, because it’s ultimately worth it. I don’t make a million dollars a year, I don’t make shit, we’re all broke as hell, but we’re all really happy. If you wish on a star, wish for happiness. I used to wish for specific things, then my bass player told me to wish for happiness, and that’s what this is. It’s rough, but it’s totally worth it, you know?
Some will be surprised to hear that Minneapolis-based band Sick of Sarah has been around for a while – in fact, they formed in 2005. Since then, they have generated a loyal following, pumped out 2 albums and replaced a drummer, namely Brooke Svanes. Welcome to Sick of Sarah, AKA Abisha Uhl (vocals), Jessie Farmer (guitar), Katie Murphy (guitar), Jamie Holm (bass) and Jessica Forsythe (drums).
The band have been working hard to build a Brit fanbase, catapulting themselves towards UK venues. This year, with some dates supporting Leisha Hailey and Camila Grey’s LA band Uh Huh Her, SoS is finally receiving some well-deserved UK attention. They even went on to blow UHH off the stage at the Shepherds Bush Empire London – memorable not only for singer Uhl pulling up her shirt over her head, driving the mostly female crowds wild, but also for SoS’ blistering live performance. In short, these guys deliver high-energy shows with Uhl ruling the stage and loving the direct crowd contact. Oh, and their music happens to rock – big time.
So, to get to know this band a bit better, here’s some interesting trivia: Lead singer Abisha Uhl grew up in Okinawa, Japan, where she lived until she was 18. They recorded their last album 2205 in a Texas studio where Karen O of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs left them behind a piece of paper with the number of a therapist and masseuse. The band’s house and rehearsal space 2205 Grand Ave has served both as a rotating home for each member of the band over the last few years and as a central creative hub – this location has become such an important symbol to the band’s identity that every member has a tattoo “2205” on their inner wrist (watch Jamie getting hers here). They’re in the middle of shooting a feature-length documentary about the band.
We caught up with 4 out of 5 of them backstage at the Shepherds Bush Empire London. Up and up the winding stairs we go until we knock on the SoS dressing room door, where we first find guitarist Jessie and bass player Jamie chilling out after their set. Here’s Part 1 of our exclusive Sick Of Sarah interview, where Jessie and Jamie talk music, prejudice faced by girl bands, and Pussy Riot’s detention.
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Hi guys! So, please introduce yourselves… JESSIE: Hello! I’m Jessie and I play guitar for Sick Of Sarah. JAMIE: And I’m Jamie and I play bass.
The band is based in Minneapolis, but did you both grow up there? JESSIE: For the most part… I was born in Illinois and moved to Minnesota when I was 5. JAMIE: Yeah, I grew up like 5 hours north of Minneapolis and then moved there when I was 18.
So how did you guys get into music? JESSIE: My older brother played guitar and piano and stuff. My parents bought a piano when I was like 7 so that was my first instrument. Then I played violin, and then I picked up the guitar and drums – my little brother played drums – I was about 10 when that happened. And then I played flute at school as well…
Now you’re focused on guitar, but do you still keep up the other ones? JESSIE: I still play piano and I can play the drums – I can carry a decent beat, I’ve pretty good rhythm. And bass and guitar of course go hand in hand too…
So, how about you, Jamie? JAMIE: My dad and older brother played guitar – I have a brother and a sister – and I was a kid who wanted to do the things that my mum did and the things that my dad did, so I wanted to play guitar too. I’d hide in my basement and write stupid love songs, even though I hadn’t dated anyone… My brother actually found one of them and he was like, “Ahhh, I love you…! – Did you write this??” I was like 16 and thinking, “Do I admit it or not…?”
And did you? JAMIE: Yes, I did! JESSIE: “Oh, You’re just darn cute!!”
And what would you say were your influences getting into music? JESSIE: I guess my first major influence was probably Kurt Cobain before he died. I was kind of getting into Nirvana and loved playing all the Nirvana songs, and then he died and I was devastated. He was my first. Joan Jett was definitely an influence of mine… Babes in Toyland, L7 – the girl bands in the 90s were huge influences of mine.
JAMIE: A lot of mine was older stuff. My dad listened to a lot of folky stuff – a lot of Bob Dylan – he loved John Prine, he loved a lot of stuff like that, and he’d play a lot too. So a lot of my influences were stuff that my dad would play and sing to me, like old, old, old stuff that I don’t even know. At night, he would sit there in our bathroom and sing to me and my brother and sister before we’d go to bed – that was kind of a ritual we had.
That’s a pretty cool dad… JAMIE: Yeah…
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You mentioned girl bands from the 90s. As an all-female band yourselves, how do you feel the music industry has treated you? JAMIE: It’s a double-edged sword, honestly… JESSIE: Yeah… JAMIE: I mean, there are certain aspects where we’re given more attention because we are all female. And then there are a lot of times where we’ll walk into a venue and we’ll be treated like crap where nobody thinks we can do anything because we’re all female, and generally that’s turned around by the time we leave because they enjoy our show. But, I definitely think there’s good and bad taken from that sort of thing.
And do you think this is a very common experience for women in the industry? JAMIE: Yeah, probably in every aspect of it – whatever position you’re in in the industry.
In terms of your band setup, is there a backstory to your former drummer Brooke’s departure? JESSIE: She really wanted to move to New York and we kind of weren’t financially in a position for all of us to do that. It was something she really wanted to do, so we were just like “Hey, do it!” And then also, we were in between our first record and starting to write our second one, and she was just like, “Oh well, we can all just file share,” but… JAMIE: …she was just at a different place than we were at that point. She really wanted to move there and explore some different things too – and she’s done it and she’s involved in some other stuff out there that’s she’s really happy about now. So, she’s happy for us, we’re happy for her… it worked out well.
Yeah, and then you found Jessica – was it important for you to find a female drummer? JAMIE: We did definitely want to find a female drummer and we were slightly worried about being able to do that, but it came super easy because we’d played with her old band which was from Des Moines, Iowa – we just asked her to come up and try out and we didn’t even try out anybody else. She was it.
She is awesome… JAMIE: Yeah and she’s been amazing. It’s worked out super well. We realise how lucky we got in finding her that easily.
You have a large queer fanbase and some of you are also queer yourself… JESSIE: I don’t know WHAT you’re talking about! [everyone laughs] JAMIE: Jessie’s boyfriend doesn’t like her to talk about it! JESSIE: Yeah, my boyfriend “Nick” does not like it! JAMIE: “Nick” hates when this question comes up!
…well, I didn’t want to assume…! JESSIE: I don’t know WHAT you’re talking about! [everyone laughs again] JAMIE: No, “Nick” is awesome!
…but the band’s mostly queer? JAMIE: Definitely more queer than straight. JESSIE: We are an equal opportunities band!! [laughs] JAMIE: I guess for us, no matter what your sexuality is, it’s so much not about that – it’s not our focus at all. And it’s not that we’re trying to shy away from those questions, even – it’s just that we want to write music because we love to write music, and we just don’t feel like that’s a thing that we’d focus on as far as what we do.
Do you find that you’re pigeonholed because of that? JESSIE: Yeah, we do get pigeonholed, but we definitely embrace the community because it’s great and we love it and it loves us, and so we’re not going to deny the fact that there’s this great community that we’re part of. But also, with being any professional musician who wants to not necessarily just appeal to one certain demographic or culture or whatever, we want to be universally diverse and not be gender-specific or gay or straight -specific… JAMIE: And we’re not an entirely gay band, and that’s not what we’re striving for… JESSIE: Yeah… I’m straight! So… [room erupts in laughter]
Uh Huh Her seems to have been pigeonholed in a similar way, and I wonder if it frustrates them a bit. But, is this boxing issue getting better in the States? JESSIE: Well, everybody wants to put everybody else in a box, you know what I mean? Even Tegan and Sara when they were starting out in the States – there’s a large percentage of lesbians that follow them and it’s cool for younger generations that are just coming up. I think pigeonholing is an old-fashioned thing to do, while the younger generations are just like, “Whatever… so they happen to be gay…” And yeah, it’s cool for really young queer kids who are just coming out to have someone to identify with who’s “in the spotlight.” JAMIE: Tegan and Sara have definitely been an example of a band who has gotten that mainstream – they’ve crossed over. They’ve been given that chance to tour with a lot of mainstream, bigger bands and it hasn’t been necessarily a gay/straight thing or whatever. They’ve definitely paved the way… JESSIE: Yeah, they make great music… JAMIE: Is it where it should be? Absolutely not. But is it getting better? I think, gradually, yes. It’s edging towards where we want to be. JESSIE: It’s funny, speaking of girl bands – even though the Murmurs weren’t an all-girl band – here’s the funny thing: when I was a freshman in high school and that song “You Suck” came out, that was actually when I first heard of – well, discovered – Leisha Hailey. I’ve kind of been following her for years and years and years, and she was in that queer movie All Over Me too. So it was just interesting from an outsider’s perspective to watch her career grow. And all of a sudden, we started playing with them, and it was like, “I remember YOU!”
And it’s not the first time you’ve played with Uh Huh Her… JAMIE: We played with them at a Pride Fest, in the States – that’s where we first met them. JESSIE: In Minnesota, yeah.
Talking about Tegan and Sara, they did a brilliant music video with Margaret Cho – we’re dying to see you guys do something with her too… JESSIE: Oh god I love her! I’ve seen her show 3 times – well worth the money!
JAMIE: Yeah, she’s hilarious.
And what’s the Minnesota queer scene like? JESSIE: We have the third largest per capita gay population in America. I mean, there are larger cities that have more gay people but in comparison we have the third largest per capita.
So do you think that you guys will be coming over this side of the pond more frequently? JAMIE: Yes! I do think so, because last year was our first time and now this year even it’s twice and very close together, so I think we probably will. Even the response since last year has been a lot better so I think it’s definitely going to grow a lot faster. Especially doing the L-Beach Festival. JESSIE: Yeah, that was great. JAMIE: We had such an amazing time there and we met a lot of people. We hope to do that again and to have the opportunity to do things like that a lot more often too.
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What message of advice would you give to people wanting to be successful in music like you? JAMIE: For anyone trying to get into any sort of artistic thing, it’s obviously super hard. The thing about it is there’s no definite plan or outline of how to do it – you can only do your research, ask questions, get involved with other people who are also involved in it and learn from them. And just make sure that you’re putting forth so much more effort than you even think you need to attempt to get there, and understand that even people who are at these high levels don’t know what they’re doing. Everyone’s just experimenting with all sorts of things. So the number one thing I would say is: it’s about the effort you’re putting into it, getting to know these people and doing your research. And anyone can do it. If you think you can do it, figure out how to do it. JESSIE: And believe in yourself, practise and just work really hard.
And what do you think of the fact that members of Russian band Pussy Riot have been locked up for performing protest songs in public and are facing up to 7 years in jail for “hooliganism?” (* the women were later sentenced to 2 years) JESSIE: I would say: Good for them for believing in the cause so much that they’re willing to go to jail for it, I think that’s fantastic, because clearly there’s something going on that they need to be that radical to make that much of a statement. I mean, how can you get 7 years in jail for “hooliganism”?? I’m pretty sure that people do worse things than that…
